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The Post-9-11 Decade by Numbers: The American Holocaust

Gideon Polya | 18.07.2011 07:57 | Anti-militarism | History | Terror War | Sheffield | World

"The only thing that will save millions more Afghans from death will be that America can no longer afford to kill them."

1. Introduction

The Cold War had barely concluded with the collapse of Russian Communism and dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 when the American Establishment and the US military-industrial complex replaced the Communist bogeyman with a Muslim threat to Western Civilization. While the US War on Terror formally began after the 9-11 atrocity, the US War on Muslims began in earnest with the imposition of Sanctions on Iraq in mid-1990. By the time the US actually invaded and occupied Iraq in 2003 it had already killed about 0.2 million Iraqis in the Gulf War and the Sanctions regime had been associated with the avoidable death from deprivation of 1.7 million Iraqis, 1.2 million under-5 year old Iraqi infant deaths and millions of refugees. This essay is concerned with the horrendous human cost of the US-imposed Muslim Holocaust that received a massive impetus from the 9-11 atrocity. Some technical terms require definition at the outset as set out below.

Holocaust is the destruction of a large number of people. The term "holocaust" was first applied to a WW2 atrocity by Jog in 1944 [1] in relation to the man-made Bengal Famine in which 6-7 million Indians - many of them Muslims in a "forgotten" WW2 Muslim Holocaust - were deliberately starved to death by the British under Churchill in 1942-1945). [2-6] This term was subsequently applied to the Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million killed, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation) [7,8] which was part of a horrendous WW2 European Holocaust (30 million Slavs, Jews and Gypsies killed in the Nazi German Lebensraum genocide).

Genocide is very precisely defined in International Law as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group" as set out by Article 2 of the 1948 UN Genocide Convention: "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: a) Killing members of the group; b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Holocaust and genocide can be inflicted by a variety of means that fall into to 2 general categories, (1) active killing through violence (e.g. shooting, beating, hacking, hanging, bombing, gassing) and (2) passive killing through physical deprivation (with the consequence of deprivation-exacerbated disease). The extent of passive killing by war- or occupation-imposed deprivation can be measured by avoidable mortality (excess mortality, avoidable death, excess death, deaths that should not have happened). Avoidable mortality can be estimated from UN Population Division data as the difference between the actual deaths in a country and the deaths expected for a peaceful, decently run country with the same demographics (birth rate and age distribution). Avoidable mortality can be crudely estimated otherwise because for impoverished developing countries it is about 1.4 times the number of under-5 year old infant deaths. [9]

2. September 11 (9-11)

The September 11 (9/11, 9-11) 2001 atrocities, in which a total of 2,995 people are reported to have died, destroyed 3 buildings in the World Trade Center, New York, severely damaged the Pentagon and involved a further incident in which a plane crashed in Pennsylvania. The "official version" of 9-11 is well known - it allegedly involved 4 passenger planes seized by a total of 19 Muslim hijackers (of whom none came from US Alliance war zones of Somalia, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan); the North and South Twin Towers of the World Trade Center (WTC) (which were each struck by a plane) and a third building (WTC7) (which was not struck by a plane) collapsed gravitationally as a result of structural steel weakness from fires; part of the Pentagon was destroyed when a passenger plane hit it precisely at the level of the ground floor; and a fourth passenger plane crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers fought with the hijackers. [10]

The "official story" about 9-11 came from the pathologically dishonest US Bush Administration that was found to have made 935 false statements about Iraq in the 2 years after 9-11. [11] The "official story" is utterly bizarre and unprecedented; has been presented by groups of people with an appalling record of lying by omission and commission, namely successive US Administrations, the governments of the US Alliance in general and the Mainstream Media (MSM). The "official story" has also been upheld by a process of highly flawed "official inquiry". [12] Further, unlike the sustained Israeli attack on the defenceless USS Liberty in international waters in 1967 (34 US servicemen killed, 171 wounded, no Israeli war criminals tried), [13] in the case of 9-11 there were no survivors from the planes to bear witness and no survivors to be potentially tried in a court of law. Indeed Obama had alleged 9-11 master-mind Osama bin Laden murdered in 2011.

The bizarre claims of the "official version" of 9-11 immediately gave rise to the 9-11 truth movement and in particular to Scholars for 9-11 Truth. [14] While there are many aspects of the "official story" that strain credulity, the 2 crucial assertions that depart from reality are (1) 3 buildings collapsing at speeds consistent with nearly zero resistance (i.e. explosive demolition) after relatively limited, low temperature fires and (2) a jet passenger plane, allegedly flown by Cessna trainee pilots and evading numerous physical obstacles, landing precisely on a dime at the ground floor of the Pentagon. The discovery of unexploded nanothermite high explosive in all samples of World Trade Center (WTC) dust studied (reported in a peer-reviewed paper in a chemical physics journal by Professor Niels Harrit of the Chemistry Department, Copenhagen University, and colleagues) provides key evidence for explosive demolition of the 3 WTC buildings and for US Government complicity in the atrocity. Numerous science, engineering, architecture, military, aviation and intelligence experts say that the US did 9-11 (for a detailed compendium of such expert opinions see the website 'Experts: US did 9-11'). [15]

Either way, the 9-11 atrocity was used as an "excuse" by the US Bush Administration to invade Afghanistan in 2001 and thence invade Iraq, even though no Afghans or Iraqis had been involved in the 9-11 atrocity according to the "official version" of 9-11. The 9-11 excuse for the War on Terror has precedents in US history. Thus the (accidental?) destruction of the USS Maine in Havana was used to launch the Spanish-American War that spread US imperialism beyond Latin America to Asia. The sinking of the arms embargo-violating Lusitania enabled US entry into WW1. The Pearl Harbor attack (about which both the UK and US Governments had advanced intelligence) [16] enabled entry of the US into WW2 (80 million dead). The Korean invasion of their own country was the basis of the Korean War (3 million war-related dead in a US war designed to destroy Communist China) [17] and the fictitious Gulf of Tonkin Incident was used as an excuse for the Vietnam War (13 million war-related deaths). [9, 18] The invasion of Panama was justified by the US, the world's number one opiate drug pusher, claiming that Noriega was involved in the drug trade. The US invasion of Grenada was based on a hypothetical threat to some US students. [9] The US has invaded over 30 countries since 1945 [9, 18] and each deadly invasion and occupation requires an "excuse" by each egregiously dishonest US Administration involved. The latest US invasion, that of Libya as part of the France-UK-US (FUKUS) Coalition was justified by hypothetical claims that Gaddafi would massacre thousands of his own people - yet it is likely that tens of thousands will die from an endless, FUKUS Coalition-backed civil war. The International Criminal Court has charged Gaddafi with crimes but not mass murderers Obama, Cameron or Sarkozy.

1950-2005 avoidable deaths/2005 population for the US and in all countries (excepting Germany and Japan) occupied by the US since 1945 are as follows: US [8.455m/300.038m = 2.8%]; Afghanistan [16.609m/25.971m = 64.0%]; Cambodia [5.852m/14.825m = 39.5%]; Dominican Republic [0.806m/8.998m = 9.0%]; Federated States of Micronesia [0.016m/0.111m = 14.4%]; Greece [0.027m/10.978m = 0.2%]; Grenada [0.018m/0.121m = 14.9%], Guam [0.005m/0.168m = 3.0%]; Haiti [4.089m/8.549m = 47.9%]; Iraq [5.283m/26.555m = 19.9%]; Korea [7.958m/71.058m = 11.2%]; Laos [2.653m/5.918m = 44.8%]; Panama [0.172m/3.235m = 5.3%]; Philippines [9.080m/82.809m = 11.0%]; Puerto Rico [0.039m/3.915m = 1.0%]; Somalia [5.568m/10.742m = 51.8%]; US Virgin Islands [0.003m/0.113m = 2.4%]; Vietnam [24.015m/83.585m = 28.7%]; Total for occupied countries = 82.193m/357.651m = 23.0%. [9]

The (US-complicit) 9-11 atrocity killed about 3,000 people but the subsequent War on Terror has directly killed about 10 million people, the breakdown being 2.7 million (Iraq, 2003-2011), 5.0 million (Afghanistan, 2001-2011), 1 million (Somalia, 2000-2011) and 1 million (global opiate drug-related deaths due to US Alliance restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry). In addition, about 7,340 US Alliance military personnel have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. On 23 March 1944, Nazi Germany's leader Adolph Hitler ordered an enemy civilian/German military death ratio of 10 in reprisals for Italian partisan killing of about 33 German soldiers and police. Hitler's order was carried out the following day in the Ardeatine Caves Massacre in Rome. [19] In the War on Terror the Enemy/US Alliance death ratio has been about 10 million/10,000 = 1,000 (accepting the lying Bush "official version" of 9-11) and about 10 million /7,340 = 1,362 (assuming US complicity in the 9-11 atrocity).

Of course the Big Lie behind the US War on Terror is that it is being conducted for the "security" of the American people. Thus about 3,000 people, mostly Americans, died on 9-11 in an atrocity in which the US was almost certainly complicit [15]; about 6,100 Americans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan; 20,000 American under-5 year old infants die avoidably each year because the richest and most powerful nation on Earth has made a fiscal priority of spending trillions of dollars on killing Muslims. Likewise, about 20,000 Americans die avoidably each year from lack of medical insurance; 30,000 Americans die avoidably from guns; 443,000 Americans die avoidably each year from smoking. Indeed it can be estimated that about 1 million Americans die each year from preventable causes. [20] Also, about 20,000 Americans die of opiate drug-related deaths each year due to US Alliance restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry. [21] Peace is the only way but silence kills and silence is complicity. America needs a peaceful War on Lies and a peaceful, democratic War on the Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI) Establishment responsible for killing 1 million Americans yearly for profit and power. Indeed outstanding Hungarian Jewish American investor and philanthropist George Soros has demanded the de-Nazification of America. [22]

With this background we can now consider the immense human cost (as of 2011) of the Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI) US War on Terror, which in horrible actuality is a cowardly and racist war on Women and Children, and, more specifically, a War on Arab, Muslim Asian, African and non-European Women and Children.

3. Iraqi Holocaust, Iraqi Genocide

The illegal and war criminal US Alliance invasion of Iraq in 2003 was based on lies about actually non-existent Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction. No Iraqis were involved in the 9-11 atrocity according to the US "official version" of 9-11. Indeed Iraq was violently opposed to Muslim-origin non-state terrorism such as that of the formerly US-backed al Qaeda. The invasion and occupation of Iraq has been associated with an accrual cost of $3.5 trillion, 4,800 US Alliance deaths and an Iraqi catastrophe involving 1.5 million violent deaths, 1.2 million avoidable deaths from war-imposed deprivation, 0.8 million under-5 infant deaths (90% avoidable and due to US Alliance war crimes) and 5-6 million refugees. However the Iraq War really began in 1990 with the imposition of US Alliance bombing and Sanctions. In the Sanctions period of 1990-2003, avoidable deaths from deprivation totalled 1.7 million, violent deaths in the Gulf War totalled 0.2 million, and under-5 infant deaths totaled 1.2 million. [23]

The Iraqi Holocaust in the period 1990-2011 has been associated with 1.7 million violent deaths, 2.9 avoidable deaths from war-imposed deprivation, 5-6 million refugees and 2.0 million under-5 year old infant deaths (90% avoidable and due to gross US Alliance violation of the Geneva Convention). This is a continuing Iraqi Genocide, with genocide as defined by Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention. Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War state that an Occupier must provide life-sustaining food and medicine to the Conquered subjects "to the fullest extent of the means available to it". The countries involved (notably the US, UK and Australia) are extremely prosperous. According to WHO the per capita total health expenditure is US$167 in Occupied Iraq and Occupied Afghanistan as compared to US$7,410 in Occupier US, US$3,399 in Occupier UK and $3,382 in Occupier Australia. Iraq remains under highly abusive US Alliance occupation.

4. Afghan Holocaust, Afghan Genocide

The US invaded Afghanistan in October 2001, directly after the 9-11 atrocity. The Taliban had made an offer to send US-alleged 9-11 master-mind Osama bin Laden to a Third country for criminal investigation but the Bush Administration rejected the offer, preferring an invasion that killed thousands of innocent people and ultimately a war and occupation that would kill 5 million. It was left to Obama to have Osama bin Laden murdered in Pakistan in 2011 several months before the start of major withdrawal of US forces in the face of potentially catastrophic US indebtedness and consequent domestic political realities. According to the lying Bush-Obama "official version" of 9-11, no Afghans were actually involved in the 9-11 atrocity.

The invasion and occupation of Afghanistan has been associated with an accrual cost of $1-2 trillion, 2,560 US Alliance deaths and an Iraqi catastrophe involving 1.2 million violent deaths, 3.8 million avoidable deaths from war-imposed deprivation, 2.7 million under-5 infant deaths (90% avoidable and due to US Alliance war crimes in gross violation of the Geneva Convention) and 3-4 million refugees. A further 2.5 million Pashtun refugees were generated in NW Pakistan due to ramped up war under Obama. The only thing that will save millions more Afghans from death will be that America can no longer afford to kill them. The Afghan Holocaust is an Afghan Genocide as defined by Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention and now has the dimensions of the WW2 Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million killed, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation, and 1.5 million Jewish children killed). The annual death rate is about 7% for Afghan under-5 year old infants as compared to 4% for Poles in Nazi-occupied Poland and 5% for Jews in Nazi-occupied France. [24]

5. 1 Million Dead from US-restored Afghan Opium Industry

The global opiate drug-related deaths from US restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry now total about 1 million with 200,000 such deaths in the US, 11,900 in the UK, 7,600 in Canada, 3,400 in Australia, 6,700 (Germany), 1,450 (France), 2,800 (Italy) and 680 (the Netherlands). In contrast, US Alliance military deaths in Afghanistan now total 27 (Australia), 156 (Canada), 1,637 (the US), 374 (the UK), 62 (France), 53 (Germany), 36 (Italy) and 25 (the Netherlands). These statistics demonstrate the sheer phoniness of the post-9-11 US War on Terror. The US Alliance war on Afghanistan has been justified in anti-terrorism terms after 9-11, but the US Alliance are the real terrorists, killing 1 million people globally, including 200,000 Americans through restoration and protection of the Afghan opium industry.

In descending order of effectiveness the world's leading countries for interdiction of opium in 2007 were Iran (84% of interdictions), Afghanistan (10%), Pakistan (3%), Tajikistan (0.5%), Turkmenistan (0.4%), and India (0.3%). It is notable that (a) the leading countries in interdicting US-protected Afghan opiate exports are countries with major Muslim populations and (b) for the last decade a stridently anti-Muslim and Islamophobic US has been conducting a brutal global war against Muslim countries with a Muslim war-related death toll now totaling about 9 million in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia. [25]

6. US-complicit Somali Holocaust, Somali Genocide

The US invaded Somalia in 1992 but the US withdrew in 1993 while backing a continuing civil war. When the Islamic Courts Union (ICU) achieved control in 2006, the US-backed and assisted Ethiopian forces subsequently invaded. This continuing US-backed foreign occupation assisted by cowardly US drone attacks ensures continuing suffering in this war-devastated country. In the period 1992-2011 it is estimated that Somali violent deaths totaled 0.5 million, non-violent deaths from war-imposed deprivation totaled 1.9 million, under-5 infant deaths totaled 1.2 million (90% avoidable and due to US-backed war), war-related deaths have totaled 2.4 million and there have been 2.0 million refugees. This carnage is a "forgotten" Somali Holocaust and a Somali Genocide as defined by Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention.

7. US-backed Palestinian Genocide by Racist Zionist (RZ)-run Apartheid Israel

The first decade of the War on Terror saw the continued, US-backed, illegal, abusive and genocidal Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza by racist Zionist-run Apartheid Israel. Apartheid Israel had occupied much of Lebanon since 1982 and the Sabra and Shatila massacres of Palestinians (3,000 dead) but had withdrawn in 2000. Similarly, Apartheid Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005. In 2006 Hamas won 76 seats out of 132 in elections in the Occupied Palestinian Territory held under racist Zionist guns but the Hamas MPs were subsequently imprisoned or confined to Gaza, described by the Catholic Church as a Gaza Concentration Camp. Apartheid Israel returned to Lebanon with a vengeance in 2006, destroying most of Lebanon's infrastructure, killing 1,100 Lebanese and making 1 million Lebanese homeless. At the same time Apartheid Israel attacked Gaza, inflicting disproportionate casualties, specifically 402 Palestinians killed, 1,100 wounded and 65 captured versus 7 Israelis killed, 44 wounded and 1 captured. [26] In 2008-2009 Apartheid Israel launched a high technology war on Gaza that again inflicted disproportionate casualties, specifically 1,417 Palestinians killed, 5,303 wounded, 20 captured, 4,000 homes destroyed and over 50,800 Gazans displaced versus 13 Israelis killed (4 by friendly fire), 518 wounded and none captured. [27] The Apartheid Israel blockade of Gaza continues with horrendous consequences for children in particular and Israeli murder and kidnapping of unarmed humanitarians on the Gaza Blockade Flotilla.

The racist Zionists (RZs) of Apartheid Israel and its supporters in the Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI)-beholden West justify Apartheid Israel violence by assertions of Palestinian 'terrorism' but the numbers say otherwise. Thus in the latest Israeli Gaza atrocity in 2008-2009, 1,417 Palestinians were killed in asserted reprisals for zero (0) Israeli deaths from Gaza rockets in the preceding year and 28 Israeli deaths from Gaza missiles in the preceding 8.25 years. It is more useful to eschew racist Zionist terror hysteria and measure such deaths as an "annual homicide rate" measured by "persons killed per million of population", specifically 0.5 (Israelis killed by Gaza missiles) as compared to 0.5 (Western rapist husbands killed by raped wives), 1.0 (Western violent husbands killed by battered wives), 11 (Israelis killed by Palestinians), 15 (Israelis by Israelis), 56 (Americans killed by Americans), 100 (Americans killed by guns), 164 (Palestinians killed violently by Israelis), 200 (African-Americans), 473 (citizens of Detroit, Michigan, USA) and 1,400 per million per year (annual Palestinian non-violent deaths through war criminal, Geneva Convention-violating Israeli-imposed deprivation). [28]

The continuing Palestinian Holocaust and Palestinian Genocide has involved 0.3 million Occupied Palestinian deaths from war-imposed deprivation, about 12,000 violent Palestinian deaths and 0.2 million under-5 year old infant deaths (90% avoidable and due to Occupier Israel war crimes) (in contrast, according to the Israeli Foreign Ministry, the post-1967 Israeli deaths from Palestinian violence total about 2,200). According to UNICEF, about 4,000 under-5 year old Occupied Palestinian children die each year, about 90% avoidably (3,600) due to deliberately imposed deprivation by their racist Zionist captors. About 5,600 Occupied Palestinians die avoidably from Israeli-imposed derivation each year and several hundred are violently killed by the racist Zionists each year. There are over 7 million Palestinian refugees illegally forbidden to return to their own country. 85% of West Bank Christians have fled and 800,000 children are indefinitely and highly abusively imprisoned in the Gaza Concentration Camp without charge or trial and simply for living in the land continuously inhabited by their forebears from the dawn of civilization.

The ongoing Palestinian Holocaust and Palestinian Genocide continues because of support from the US and other Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI)-beholden countries, notably the UK, Canada, other NATO countries and Australia - racist, war criminal countries that are variously involved in the ongoing Afghan Holocaust, Afghan Genocide, Muslim Holocaust and Muslim Genocide. What must be described as Apartheid Australia (because of its race-based laws, regulations and policies) is the most slavish supporter of Apartheid Israel after the US. Thus donations towards the Palestinian Genocide are tax deductible in Australia whereas donations towards Gaza orphanages could conceivably attract a punishment of life imprisonment. Many outstanding anti-racist Jewish scholars have opposed the crimes of Apartheid Israel by articulating the extent of this continuing, Anglo-American-backed racist Zionist Palestinian Genocide. [29-32]

8. Nobel Peace Laureate Obama Extended US Violence to Yemen, Libya and Pakistan

Just as war criminal Bush dashed our hopes that war would end in the 21st century world, so Barack Obama (inaugurated president in January 2009) dashed the hopes of decent people that the first African-American president would stop American racism, violence, invasions, occupations and mass murder. Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 but went on to continue violent occupation of Occupied Iraq, to expand US violence in Occupied Afghanistan, to continue US surrogate occupation of Occupied Haiti, Occupied Palestine and Occupied Somalia, to expand war in the Yemen and NW Pakistan (despite devastating floods that had made 20 million Pakistanis homeless; the expanded US and US-backed war created 2.5 million Pashtun refugees in NW Pakistan) and to launch a massive aerial bombardment of Libya. Under Gaddafi, Libya achieved an under-5 infant mortality of 18 deaths per 1,000 births as compared to 8 for the US and 199 in US Alliance-occupied Afghanistan. The France-UK-US (FUKUS) Coalition bombing and other military support for an unending civil war in Libya is certain to increase Libyan infant mortality and avoidable mortality. We are seeing the beginning of a Libyan Holocaust and Libyan Genocide.

In 2009 I attempted to answer the question posed by the Vietnam era anti-war chant "Hey, hey, USA, how many kids did you kill today?" The answer in 2009 under Obama was about 1,000. [33] In 2011 under war criminal Obama that number has grown to about 1,500 avoidable child deaths daily in the overseas American Empire. Obama's dishonesty exceeds that of Bush. Thus Obama - a war criminal involved in the ongoing mass murder of Muslim men, women and children in Occupied Afghanistan, Occupied Palestine, Occupied Iraq and Occupied Somalia and in US robot-bombed Yemen, Libya and Pakistan - disingenuously portrays the US as a supporter of freedom and democracy in the Muslim World. What Arabs and Muslims need above all else is freedom from American racism, hegemony and genocidal violence.

9. Occupation, Hegemony and Global Avoidable Mortality Holocaust

In 2007 I estimated from UN Population Division data that about 16 million people (including 9.5 million under-5 year old infants) die avoidably each year around the World from First World-complicit deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease. By 2010 it could be estimated that 18 million people die avoidably each year in Developing Countries alone (minus China). 1950-2005 avoidable deaths totaled 1.3 billion (the World), 1.2 billion (the non-European World) and 0.6 billion (the Muslim World), these estimates being consonant with independent estimates of 1950-2005 under-5 infant deaths of 0.88 billion (the World), 0.85 billion (the non-European World) and 0.4 billion (the Muslim World). This Global Avoidable Mortality Holocaust is fundamentally due to First World Hegemony over Spaceship Earth and with the US in charge of the flight deck. [9]

Politically correct racism (PC racism) of the Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI)-beholden Western Murdochracies and Lobbyocracies means Western complicity in violent and non-violent mass murder of non-Europeans while simultaneously declaring love for the victims and resolutely ignoring the horrendous realities - genocide commission, holocaust commission, genocide ignoring, holocaust ignoring, genocide denial and holocaust denial. 1950-2005 avoidable deaths in countries partly or completely occupied in the post-1945 era (excluding Japan and Germany) total as follows for countries subject to occupation by the various major Western occupiers of such countries: 2 million (occupied by Australia), 36 million (Belgium), 142 million (France), 24 million (Apartheid Israel), 72 million (the Netherlands), 23 million (Portugal), 9 million (Spain), 727 million (UK) and 82 million (countries occupied by the US). [9]

10. Biofuel Genocide, Climate Emergency and Climate Genocide

At present about 2 billion people go hungry and 1 billion are malnourished. Legislatively-mandated biofuel in the US, UK, EU, and Brazil contributes to an increasing price of food and hence to malnourishment and starvation. In 2008 global food prices rose to record highs and only the Global Financial Crisis and the attendant drop in oil and food prices allowed us to avoid a massive global famine (cf [1-6]). The United States is currently using about 9% of its wheat, 25% of its corn and about 15% of its grain in general to produce biofuel. The UK has committed to large increases in the use of biofuels over coming decades, has recently announced subsidies for biofuel and supports the EU target requiring 10 per cent of petrol station fuel to be plant-derived biofuel within about 10 years. However the huge and intrinsically genocidal current US diversion of 15% of its grain crop to biofuel production has had a huge impact already on soaring global food prices. Oil and food prices are inexorably increasing. [34]

Both Dr James Lovelock FRS (Gaia hypothesis) and Professor Kevin Anderson (Director, Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, University of Manchester, UK) have recently estimated that only about 0.5 billion people will survive this century due to unaddressed, man-made global warming. Noting that the world population is expected to reach 9.5 billion by 2050, these estimates translate to a climate genocide involving the avoidable deaths of roughly 10 billion people this century, this including 6 billion under-5 year old infants, 3 billion Muslims in a terminal Muslim Holocaust, 2 billion Indians, 1.3 billion non-Arab Africans, 0.5 billion Bengalis, 0.3 billion Pakistanis and 0.3 billion Bangladeshis. Unaddressed, man-made climate change will increase annual global avoidable deaths from the current circa 20 million per year to a 21st century average of 100 million per year. [35]

Collective, national responsibility for this already commenced Climate Holocaust is in direct proportion to per capita national pollution of the atmosphere with greenhouse gases (GHGs). Indeed, fundamental to any international agreement on national rights to pollute our common atmosphere and oceans should be the belief that "all men are created equal". However reality is otherwise: "annual per capita greenhouse gas (GHG) pollution" in units of "tonnes CO2-equivalent per person per year" (2005-2008 data) is 0.9 (Bangladesh), 0.9 (Pakistan), 2.2 (India), less than 3 (many African and Island countries), 3.2 (the Developing World), 5.5 (China), 6.7 (the World), 11 (Europe), 16 (the Developed World), 27 (the US) and 30 (Australia; or 54 if Australia's huge Exported CO2 pollution is included) [35].

A science-based analysis of every country in the world reveals that in order to avoid a catastrophic 2 degree C temperature rise (EU policy), at current rates of greenhouse gas pollution, the world must achieve zero emissions in less than 20 years. Top per capita polluters Australia, Canada and the US must cease GHG pollution within about 5 years, and Bangladesh can get to zero emissions within 139 years. [36] However the US, Canada and Australia are committed to increasing greenhouse gas (GHG) pollution in the name of remorseless, racist greed. We are badly running out of time. The world must take action against the more notorious climate criminal, climate racist, and climate terrorist countries such as Australia, Canada and the US through Sanctions, Boycotts, Sporting Boycotts (as were successfully applied to Apartheid South Africa through exclusion from the Olympic Games and other events), Green Tariffs, International Court of Justice litigations and International Criminal Court prosecutions.

11. Conclusion - Silence Kills and Silence Is Complicity

History ignored yields history repeated. The genocidal crimes of the US Alliance both pre- and post-9-11 are remorselessly ignored in the Western Murdochracies in a process of egregious holocaust commission and holocaust denial. Decent people must demand honest appraisal of reality in order to have rational risk management for our threatened Planet. Peace is the only way but silence kills and silence is complicity. We are badly running out of time and decent people must (a) inform everyone they can and (b) urge sanctions against all those countries, corporations, politicians and other people involved in the US Alliance War on humanity and the planet.






Dr Gideon Polya currently teaches science students at a major Australian university. He has published some 130 works in a 5 decade scientific career, most recently a huge pharmacological reference text Biochemical Targets of Plant Bioactive Compounds. He has also recently published Body Count: Global Avoidable Mortality since 1950.





Endnotes

1. N.G. Jog, Churchill's Blind-Spot: India (Bombay: New Book Company, 1944).

2. Madhusree Mukerjee, Churchill's Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India during World War II (New York: Basic Books, 2010).

3. Gideon Polya, Jane Austen and the Black Hole of British History: Colonial rapacity, holocaust denial and the crisis in biological sustainability (Melbourne: G.M. Polya, 1998, 2008).
 http://janeaustenand.blogspot.com/

4. Paul Greenough, Prosperity and Misery in Modern Bengal: The Famine of 1943-1944 (Oxford University Press, 1982).

5. Tom Keneally, Three Famines (Sydney: Knopf, 2010).

6. Cormac Ó Gráda, Famine (Princeton University Press, 2009).

7. Martin Gilbert, Jewish History Atlas (London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1969).

8. Martin Gilbert, Atlas of the Holocaust (London: Michael Joseph, 1982).

9. Polya, Body Count: Global Avoidable Mortality since 1950 (Melbourne: G.M. Polya, 2007).
 http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/

10. 'September 11 attacks', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

11. 'Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war', CNN.
 http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

12. '9/11 Commission Report', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report

13. 'USS Liberty incident', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

14.  http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

15. 'Experts: US did 9-11'.
 http://sites.google.com/site/expertsusdid911/home

16. J. Rusbridger and E. Nave, Betrayal at Pearl Harbor: How Churchill Lured Roosevelt into World War II (New York: Summit, 1991).

17. I.F. Stone, The Hidden History of the Korean War (New York: Monthly Review Press, 1952).

18. William Blum, Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower (Maine: Common Courage Press, 2000).

19. 'Ardeatine Massacre', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeatine_massacre

20. Polya, 'Carbon Burning, Zionism & War Kill 1 Million Americans Yearly', Newsvine, 20 June, 2008.
 http://gpolya.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/19/1593137-carbon-burning-zionism-war-kill-1-million-americans-yearly

21. Polya, '26 June UN Anti-Drugs Day: 1 Million Dead from US-backed Afghan Opium Industry, 200,000 (US), 11,900 (UK)', Bellaciao, 26 June, 2011.
 http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article20894

22. Polya, 'George Soros - Bush America Needs De-Nazification', MWC News, 2007.
 http://sites.google.com/site/afghanistangenocideessays/george-soros

23. 'Iraqi Genocide, Iraqi Holocaust'.
 http://iraqigenocideiraqiholocaust.blogspot.com/
 http://sites.google.com/site/iraqiholocaustiraqigenocide/

24. 'Afghan Holocaust, Afghan Genocide'.
 http://afghangenocide.blogspot.com/
 http://sites.google.com/site/afghanholocaustafghangenocide/

25. Polya, '26 June UN Anti-Drugs Day'.

26. '2006 Israel-Gaza conflict', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict

27. 'Gaza War', Wikipedia.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War

28. Polya, 'Apartheid Israel Gaza Massacre', Countercurrents, 17 February, 2009.
 http://www.countercurrents.org/polya170209.htm

29. William Cook, ed., The Plight of the Palestinians (London: Macmillan, 2010).
 http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/4047-the-plight-of-the-palestinians.html

30. Stephen Lendman, 'Israel's Slow Motion Genocide in Occupied Palestine', Baltimore Chronicle, 26 November, 2008.
 http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2008/112608Lendman.shtml

31.  http://jewsagainstracistzionism.blogspot.com/

32.  http://sites.google.com/site/palestiniangenocide/

33. Polya, '"Hey, Hey, USA, How Many Kids Did You Kill Today?" Answer: 1,000?', Bellaciao, 1 May, 2009.
 http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article18750

34. 'Biofuel Genocide'.
 https://sites.google.com/site/biofuelgenocide/

35. 'Climate Genocide'.
 http://sites.google.com/site/climategenocide/

36. Polya, 'Country Analysis: World Must Get Zero Emissions at Present Rates in 20 Years, Australia 5, Bangladesh 139', Bellaciao, 11 June, 2001.
 http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article20841

Gideon Polya
- Homepage: http://www.stateofnature.org/post911DecadeNumbers.html

Comments

Hide the following 47 comments

Blind followers.

18.07.2011 11:01

Couple of points you raised as evidence that that the buildings were demolished in a controlled demolitions.

"(1) 3 buildings collapsing at speeds consistent with nearly zero resistance (i.e. explosive demolition) after relatively limited, low temperature fires."

You do not get zero or nearly zero resistance in controlled demolitions of buildings, in the following video you can see that the Landmark Tower in Texas fell 40% less than Free fall. As if that comparison is not bad enough the total collapse time for all 3 buildings was way over what they would have been, had they had zero, or nearly zero resistance. Building 7 did have a period of just over 2 seconds of free fall, however this was only detected on the north face of the building, there is no way of knowing if this is occurring all around the building, or indeed inside the building where the collapse was well under way and in fact ahead of the perimeter collapse - which is an interesting point, because if the internal collapse was ahead, and already under way, it would have pulled on the north face, causing the free fall - this is called moment of force, or torque. the total time for the collapse of building 7 (starting with the fall of the east penthouse) is just over 16 seconds.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8yUR-sM4lU

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the temperature of the fires the strong evidence is there that they caused the floors to sag in WTC 1 and 2, because the perimeters had significant inward bowing, this can ONLY happen if the steel was heated significantly to sag. Which as you can see from the following link in which steel has sagged over wood (the wood has survived the fire), and has the appearance of being melted.

 http://rustylopez.typepad.com/newcovenant/2007/03/history_is_made.html

"The discovery of unexploded nanothermite high explosive in all samples of World Trade Center (WTC) dust studied (reported in a peer-reviewed paper in a chemical physics journal by Professor Niels Harrit of the Chemistry Department, Copenhagen University, and colleagues) provides key evidence for explosive demolition of the 3 WTC buildings and for US Government complicity in the atrocity."


The methods used to test for thermite have been seriously questioned, two chief editors have resigned from the online pay for publish journal this first appeared in over the publication, and someone submitted a test paper to the pay for publish journal that was full of errors, and got it accepted.

A metallurgist and materials scientist has, using data from the paper shown that the Aluminum (Al) is bound in Kaolin, this would render the Al inert - it would not react bound in kaolin, that means no thermitic reaction. Interestingly the mineral Kaolin is used in some paints, and Denis Rancourt, another materials scientist with considerable more experience, and published papers has pointed out that the writers have not even accounted for the aluminum slugs they mounted their samples on when doing an EDX reading!

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4659658#post4659658

And another truther scientist: Frederic Henry-Couannier has looked at the samples, and bravely said there is no thermite.






credulity


Blind leading the blind

18.07.2011 15:47

Blindly following the official yarn as you do is dumber, and you are quite obviously dumb.

"You do not get zero or nearly zero resistance in controlled demolitions of buildings, in the following video you can see that the Landmark Tower in Texas fell 40% less than Free fall."

So to prove it you point us to a single video that makes exactly the same error that NIST made when calculating the acceleration of WTC7 i.e. calculating the *average* acceleration for the whole collapse, this error was pointed out to NIST by a Physics teacher and NIST acknowledged their error and agreed that for 2.25 seconds WTC 7 fell at freefall, So NIST acknowledge that WTC7 fell at free fall.

You say that there is no evidence that it was the whole building falling at that rate and that

"the collapse was well under way and in fact ahead of the perimeter collapse"

Of course you present no supporting evidence to support what you're saying about the collapse unless you are referring to NISTs model of the collapse which is unscientific as it cannot be peer reviewed or tested in any way as NIST refuse to release the input parameters to their model, but we do know that they had to remove heat conduction through the steel frame and remove the sheer studs from the floor panels among other "tweaks" in order to get their model collapse. So are you an idiot? to believe in the NIST model because that's what you're doing it's an act of belief on your part. You are a blind follower of the official yarn and credulously swallow it whole.

Quite clearly you are not a scientist have no conception of what actually constitutes the scientific method and can therefore only be a troll or a useful idiot.

In other words you're presenting the usual pathological science that the so called debunkers present. Either you're being paid to spread disinformation or you actually believe that the ruling class would never perpetrate false flag events like this and so the buildings could not have been blown up, i.e. your pathological belief in the fundamental goodness of the ruling class blinds you to the possibility that these buildings were blown up.

Blind and credulous therefore describes you.

Nobody


Straw

18.07.2011 19:03



"So to prove it you point us to a single video that makes exactly the same error that NIST made when calculating the acceleration of WTC7 i.e. calculating the *average* acceleration for the whole collapse, this error was pointed out to NIST by a Physics teacher and NIST acknowledged their error and agreed that for 2.25 seconds WTC 7 fell at freefall, So NIST acknowledge that WTC7 fell at free fall."

-And I too acknowledged the free fall, doesn't mean there is not significant resistance in a controlled demolition, which the OP was trying to suggest, and I refuted.



You say that there is no evidence that it was the whole building falling at that rate and that

"the collapse was well under way and in fact ahead of the perimeter collapse"

- Yep, as evidenced by the collapse of the penthouse, followed by daylight visible through the windows where the internal structure once was, this is not in dispute, progressive collapse over more than 16 seconds.

Of course you present no supporting evidence to support what you're saying about the collapse unless you are referring to NISTs model of the collapse which is unscientific as it cannot be peer reviewed or tested in any way as NIST refuse to release the input parameters to their model, but we do know that they had to remove heat conduction through the steel frame and remove the sheer studs from the floor panels among other "tweaks" in order to get their model collapse. So are you an idiot? to believe in the NIST model because that's what you're doing it's an act of belief on your part. "
There are a lot of other components left out, not just sheer studs, do you think they should have included every component, or just put sheer studs in at random to say they do not stop thermal expansion?

What is the relevance of heat conduction to whether something thermally expands or not, and why did these guys not burn their hands? (notice how the beam sags as they pick it up).

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drsgs6-3Qlg

Also, why the ad hominem attacks and negativity? Can't we discuss this like adults?






credulity


Absurd Clown

18.07.2011 20:14

Calling you an idiot is not ad-hominem it is a judgement based on an observation of your first post to this article. Saying as you do that taking the average acceleration over an entire demolition and only doing that just the once and then claiming that you have 'refuted' something shows a high level of ignorance of the Scientific method and you ought to be ashamed.

As for your absurd 'daylight visible through the windows' proof that the interior somehow detached itself from the perimeter well nuff said you are obviously a clown I won't waste more time discussing it with you. Freefall is impossible in any building collapse the whole purpose of a building is to resist gravity and in WTC 7 we observe no resistance for 8 floors of the demolition. Check out Newton huh! Before you continue with your absurd "Science"

Nobody


@Nobody

18.07.2011 20:33

what a tool. Your science is so fucked up its a joke.
This same conversation goes on week after week

Believe what you what you fucking loon, just don't try spreading your disease to normal people.

The 9/11 attack was committed by a bunch of muslim nutters like all the over 12,000+ terrorist attacks done in the name of Islam in the last 10 years.

chopper


Oh no! Idiot alert!

18.07.2011 20:46

It's not my science it's Newton's Science. OK? and you're a racist bigot who just swallows propaganda as if it's truth yet another useful idiot. Funny how The Trolls always come out on 9-11!

N


Strawman

18.07.2011 21:01

"Saying as you do that taking the average acceleration over an entire demolition"

- As was the OP.
"As for your absurd 'daylight visible through the windows' proof that the interior somehow detached itself from the perimeter"
- Strawman argument, nowhere did I say it detached itself, in fact I specifically stated it pulled the exterior downward, it has to be attached to do that.


You're not very happy are you?

Well, sending you some love.

credulity


@ nobody

18.07.2011 21:11

I really hope you are not like this in real life, otherwise you won't have much of a quality of life, I am always up for a discussion, but I am afraid I am going to have to end it here, you just can't behave ;), unless you can drop the insults, and tell me what it would take to convince you that 9/11 was not a CD? Then I refuse to engage with you.

credulity


Handwaving

18.07.2011 21:17

The OP says

While there are many aspects of the "official story" that strain credulity, the 2 crucial assertions that depart from reality are (1) 3 buildings collapsing at speeds consistent with nearly zero resistance (i.e. explosive demolition) after relatively limited, low temperature fires ...

WTC 1 fell at around a constant 70% freefall for the first 40 floors - WTC2, NIST say almost freefall I have seen no independent measurement for WTC2 - WTC7 at freefall for the 1st 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST and independently verifiable. Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

N


get over it

18.07.2011 22:25

WTC 1 fell at around a constant 70% freefall for the first 40 floors - WTC2, NIST say almost freefall I have seen no independent measurement for WTC2 - WTC7 at freefall for the 1st 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST and independently verifiable. Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.


i don't see the problem. Of course the building will fall in freefall - it is collapsing.
What is the issue?

A building that collapses by deliberate demolition will do so in a similar way to a building demolished by fire. FACT

You are a useful idiot to the terrorists which means you are a terrorist sympathiser.

engineer


@chopper

18.07.2011 23:01

"what a tool. Your science is so fucked up its a joke.
This same conversation goes on week after week

Believe what you what you fucking loon, just don't try spreading your disease to normal people.

The 9/11 attack was committed by a bunch of muslim nutters like all the over 12,000+ terrorist attacks done in the name of Islam in the last 10 years. "


Afraid I am going to have to fix your comment for you, here it is revised:

what a tool. Your science is so fucked up its a joke.
This same conversation goes on week after week

Believe what you what like you fucking loon, just don't try spreading your disease to normal people.

The 9/11 attack was committed by a bunch of religious nutters like all the over 50,000+ terrorist attacks done in the name of religion in the last 100 years.


- case in point: Northern Ireland - Christianity.

credulity


N

19.07.2011 01:11

"WTC7 at freefall for the 1st 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST"

-not true.

B


Correction

19.07.2011 11:31

Handwaving

18.07.2011 21:17
The OP says

While there are many aspects of the "official story" that strain credulity, the 2 crucial assertions that depart from reality are (1) 3 buildings collapsing at speeds consistent with nearly zero resistance (i.e. explosive demolition) after relatively limited, low temperature fires ...

WTC 1 fell at around a constant 70% freefall for the first 40 floors - WTC2, NIST say almost freefall I have seen no independent measurement for WTC2 - WTC7 at freefall for 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST and independently verifiable. Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

N

N


September 11th 2001 will always be relevant

19.07.2011 12:10

Contrary to what many "9/11 Truthers" claim, there's much more to to the story than what happened to those 3 buildings.

The Facts Speak For Themselves by Jon Gold
 http://911truthnews.com/the-facts-speak-for-themselves/

Press For Truth (The story of the 9/11 victims families fight for an investigation)  http://www.youtube.com/wat​ch?v=gbWQ8ItJB-s

- Family Steering Committee Questions to the 9/11 Commission. A report on the inadequacies of the 9/11 Commission’s Report compiled by 9/11 Family Members Lorie Van Auken and Mindy Kleinberg
 http://home.comcast.net/~g​old9472/fsc_review.pdf

- Ties With Terror: Western-Al-Qaeda Relations in the Post-Cold War Period By Nafeez Ahmed
 http://www.indymedia.org.u​k/en/2007/04/368971.html

- 9/11 CitizensWatch C-SPAN Press Conferences
 http://911truthnews.com/9-​11-citizenswatch-cspan-pre​ss-conferences

- The 9/11 Omission Hearings
 http://911truthnews.com/91​1-omission-hearings/

- The War on Truth: 9/11, Disinformation and the Anatomy of Terrorism by Dr. Nafeez Ahmed
 http://www.amazon.com/War-​Truth-Disinformation-Anato​my-Terrorism/dp/1566565960

- The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America by Peter Dale Scott
 http://www.amazon.com/Road​-11-Wealth-Empire-America/​dp/0520258711

Gareth


Gareth

19.07.2011 15:30

5 links don't work in your comment, you might want to update your copy-pasta piece, for your next paste! ;)

You appear to support both LIHOP and MIHOP judging by the links, or you are just being vague.


There's no way the Truthers have been right all along about a LIHOP scenario. For starters, most of them don't even believe in it, but only fall back on it when they reach the paper-thin depths of their scientific knowledge and fail to support their MIHOP dreams.

Obviously, no intelligence service is perfect. they try to anticipate and prevent things like September 11th, but there are no guarantees. We also know for a fact that there are bureaucratic inefficiencies, idiotic turf wars, personal conflicts, legal hurdles, and flat out bungling that occurred.

But, these flaws do not support LIHOP. In fact, they absolutely preclude any LIHOP scenario.

Think about it. In order to pull off LIHOP, the intelligence services have to be totally coordinated. This is true regardless of which basic scenario you follow: If the operation was created by the CIA or what have you, they'd have to tell everybody about it and get them to look the other way -- and the others would have to obey. If the operation was legitimately started by al-Qaeda but stumbled upon by the CIA, then they'd have to prevent anyone else from finding out about it.

How is this remotely possible?

Here's what would really happen. At the highest levels, Cabinet members and agency directors would hammer out some kind of agreement, and keep it under lock and key. Then they'd prepare their own agency strategies to make it a reality. This becomes marching orders, presentations, phone calls, carefully orchestrated staffing changes and moves, manipulation of files and IT departments, etc... eventually landing at the lowest common denominator where analysts and field agents are sitting around a conference phone, going through PowerPoint slides, trying to figure out what fresh hell is being inflicted on them by management this time.

It can't work. All it takes is one person who conveniently ignores her orders, or one working stiff who was at the dentist that morning, and all of a sudden you've got a loose cannon that could ruin everything.

Were that not the case, were the various intelligence services tight as a drum and in lock-step, it might be plausible. But it just ain't so. The various books on the subject describe, in vivid detail, just how close some of those loose cannons came to cracking the whole thing open. No way would that have happened if it really was LIHOP. None at all.

here is also the problem of foreign intelligence agencies. If an attack was allowed to happen inside the US and warning were being picked up by US intelligence agencies and ignored, then they would also have been picked up by other intelligence agencies, some of whom are not friendly to the US.

To keep it tight and under wraps all these agencies would have to be, somehow brought onboard. This is simply impossible. Beyond that little problem there is also the added bonus of actually keep them onboard for many years to come, again this is an almost impossible task.

For LIHOP to actually succeed and to keep the rest of the planets intelligence agencies quiet about it for untold years simply would not happen. If the US somehow allowed this to happen and there was the slightest whiff of anything doggy going on then there is no reason for countries, many of whom actually had citizens murdered in this attack, to keep quiet. It is simply not going to happen.

One very big problem: Wikileaks.

Credulity


Controlled Demoliton

20.07.2011 13:46

"WTC7 at freefall for the 1st 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST and independently verifiable. Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot."
- Nobody



Building 7 actually reached free fall, or near free fall (there is margin of error in the measurements) 1.75 seconds after the start of the collapse, and this is if we time it from when the exterior comes down, not from the actual start of the collapse sequence, when the East Penthouse collapses.
Interesting that Nobody should change this to "freefall for the first 2.25 secs" which s/he needs it to be to fit the controlled demolition theory s/he has.

David Chandler has been asked to back up his idea that free fall in building 7 = CD by showing a CD that has free fall, so far he has not done that. However, Nobody, by shifting the time of the free fall to the start of the collapse must be aware that a CD comes closest to free fall acceleration at the start of collapse, because that is the point where most of the support over one or several floors is blown to cause the building to collide with the lower part and destroy itself.
In terms of classic controlled demolition, building 7 acted very differently, basically the only way for this to be possible, is if demolition explosives are set off 1.75 seconds after the building begins to drop! - pretty pointless as the building is already falling.

So that is why Nobody has moved the period free fall occurred forward to the start of the global collapse.

Truthers lie.


It was corrected you bigotted reactionary

20.07.2011 18:52

WTC 1 fell at around a constant 70% freefall for the first 40 floors - WTC2, NIST say almost freefall I have seen no independent measurement for WTC2 - WTC7 at freefall for 2.25 secs confirmed by NIST and independently verifiable. Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

N


science 101

20.07.2011 21:07

> Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

If it is impossible, how did it happen then?

Explosives wouldn't cause instant freefall either. There is still a short time for the top structure to accelerate to freefall which still doesn't fit your 'results'

Therefore, the only conclusion that can be deduced is that your timings are wrong
(as repeatedly mentioned above...... your times are incorrect)

not a terrorist


LMFAO

20.07.2011 22:24

science 101

20.07.2011 21:07
> Newton's Laws say this is impossible in a gravity only collapse and I side with Newton and anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

"If it is impossible, how did it happen then?"

impossible in a *gravity only* collapse - Therefore.....

The best Hypothesis I've seen is by Controlled Demolition, you might want to look at Castigliano's Theorems, but as any Engineer should know you'd be wasting your time.

"Explosives wouldn't cause instant freefall either."

What is your evidence to support this outlandish statement? This is just some assertion that has no relevance to this discussion, in other words you're making shit up.

"There is still a short time for the top structure to accelerate to freefall"

LMFAO!
Again you're showing a complete ignorance of the Laws of Physics and the nature of the Force of Gravity acting "a short time to accelerate to freefall" is abject nonsense. Clearly from the way you state this you haven't a clue about Physics and the Laws that govern the motion of bodies on this Planet so Physics 101 is where you should be I think.

"which still doesn't fit your 'results'"

There are two 'results' as you sarcastically single quote and neither are mine, one of them comes from the official body charged with investigating these collapses NIST and the other from a Physics teacher. Again your ignorance of the Scientific Method is plain to see the way to show results are wrong is to do your own experiment and show the results, the way you're attempting to show that freefall didn't occur in WTC7 is to make the bold assertion that freefall cannot occur an assertion made without any supporting evidence and simply say therefore it didn't happen, as a Scientist you are failing 101 at the moment.

"Therefore, the only conclusion that can be deduced is that your timings are wrong"

This statement as demonstrated above is a logical fallacy.

"(as repeatedly mentioned above...... your times are incorrect)"

They're NIST's times I suggest you contact them instead of harassing people here.

"not a terrorist"

No just a stupid troll

N


OMG

20.07.2011 22:58

I completely disagree with your "science". You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
And it seems the rest of the world agrees with me. You are what is known as "a crazy"

One wonders who's side you are actually on?

not a terrorist


N

20.07.2011 23:50


Can't help but notice you have ignored the more challenging points and questions raised here, but credit to you you have picked up on science 101 confusing terminal velocity with free fall acceleration, you are 10% right.

Truthers lie.


Welcome to the Idiot Troll Fest

21.07.2011 13:54

LMFAOWTRDMC
OMG

20.07.2011 22:58
"I completely disagree with your "science". "

It's Galileo's, Newton's, Euler's ... "Science." not mine you'll have to take it up with them you know? with the Scientific Method and show exactly why you disagree otherwise you're just posturing and hand waving.

"You clearly don't know what you are talking about."

LOL you'd know of course!

"And it seems the rest of the world agrees with me."

Ha Ha Ha- Appeal to the Liberal Majority, 48% of New Yorkers would appear to agree with me, but you're confusing me with someone that gives a shit. I guess it was the same in Galileo's time huh? Yes the Majority of Catholics still believed that the Earth was at the Centre of the Universe coz god says so coz the pope said god says. So that 'crazy' Galileo with his mad Empirical Science and his bizarre observations and all his crayzee Enlightenment shit is the enemy of the church and therefore is with the Devil and should be punished.

FFS! you're operating with a pre Enlightenment mind, and there's me thinking evolution only went in a positive direction like humans get *more* intelligent with time, building on the shoulders of giants and all that, but no here we have a mind that works in a pre Enlightenment mode.... We're doomed I tell you dooooomed!

"You are what is known as "a crazy""

You're what's known as "a stupid twat". Go tell it to Newton.

"One wonders who's side you are actually on?"

Err? Newtons? you know Newton's Laws? Empirical Science?

OK So because of the consequences of Newton's Laws i.e. the Laws of the Conservation of Momentum and Energy, I'm forced to conclude that the WTC7 'event' -FREEFALL for 2.25 secs according to NIST - and an impossibility with just Gravity acting, according to Newton's Laws - was not a gravity only event and so therefore, I'm on some side or other. You should stop taking the Daily Mule it's fucking up yer mind.

You really are a very stupid person it's probably why you've ended up doing what you're doing, idiots are known to be useful, like not knowing any better and just carrying on coz some one told you anyone who thinks there is something well dodgy about WTC7 like 48% of New Yorkers do and all that 9-11 shit must be a terrorist, you really come from an absurdist's nightmare, I blame the parents or their stand-ins school, army cadets, all that scare em and shout at em sort of conditioning that inevitably leads to stupidity and subservience. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for you, must be tough being so stupid huh?. What a fucked up brain you've got, have you just been sacked from the News of the World, maybe you're a Fox News reject. It's not normal to agree with Newton is it, one has to fall in step with the bemused 'majority' coz they know all about Newton's Laws despite them being a bit counter intuitive, its remarkable how the majority 'know' despite the fucked up ejikashun system, and the authoritarian conditioning, somehow they're still able to recognise a bunch of lying criminals when they finally get to see 'em. and 48% of New Yorkers agree.......

OMg Indeed.

"not a terrorist"

No a stupid Troll Twat.

OK 'truthers lie' I mean what a bigoted attitude, that choice of that name conjures up, and you like 'not a terrorist' are showing your ignorance with your last pitiful utterance, 10% correct you say while totally misunderstanding why 'not a terrorist's' dumb "accelerates to freefall" statement is abject Scientific nonsense. What a fake and a fraud! pretending to know shit when you know nada.

Take a 47 story steel framed sky scraper, designed with a factor of safety (fos) of around 3. What does that mean? a factor of safety? well the top floor's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two floors on top (theoretically). Where did the failure of this skyscraper occur around the twelfth floor, ok so the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above, times the fos that's a part of the structure designed to hold up around 105 floors above it, put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing. OK so now you believe and want me to believe that a 35 floor mass can destroy a structure designed to carry a 105 floor mass, I mean that's absurd enough in and of it self, but in addition to this absurd conjecture you also want me to believe that the 35 floor mass can destroy 8 floors of structure designed to carry 105 floors (on average - each lower floor can carry 3 times the load so floor 11 = 108 floors, floor 8 - 117 floors etc) whilst decending at freefall i.e. according to the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum destroying those 8 floors with zero loss of either Energy or Momentum. FFS! Take it from me you're having your leg pulled if someone has told you that this is possible, they are taking the piss out of you and making you look a twat.


N


Hilarious.

21.07.2011 16:09

"the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above"

I seriously hope you don't work in construction. Each in a building is fixed to the columns, it is the columns that are the load-bearing part of the structure, not the floors, therefore the 12th floor does not support the 35 floors above, in fact one could completely dismantle the 12th floor with no effect to the building, do you just make this stuff up off the top of your head?

_ This will be another point N ignores as if it doesn't exist, go back and look how many times he has done that now lurkers.

Truthers lie.


Controlled demolitions are impossible.......apparently

21.07.2011 16:24

The arguments made by truthers, when applied to any building collapse, including controlled demolitions make all of these impossible, in truther-land no building could fall down ever.

 http://www.jod911.com/kuttleranalysis.pdf

According to truthers there is no way a smaller top section could destroy a larger bottom section, because this is against Newtons third law, the following video did not happen, because apparently it's impossible:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwvj-npt5s

Credulity


Hypothesis

21.07.2011 16:55

"The best Hypothesis I've seen is by Controlled Demolition"

Erm, there is no controlled demolition hypothesis, just a collection of essentially disparate bits of "evidence" such as eye witness testimony taken out of context (some of the testimony of explosions used by truthers when in the full context is actually people describing bodies hitting the ground of those who jumped), and calculations based on incorrect timings of the collapse, e.g:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rhY9c_iemA
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60A86cg16KQ&feature=related

And leaping from thermite to thermate to explosives depending on the line of argument one is trying to support, of course you are welcome to prove me wrong by posting a concise full hypothesis, so far only NIST have done that.

Truthers lie.


newtons law is the magic bullet

21.07.2011 17:45

When i mean "i don't agree with your science", i am not referring to Newton's Law science, I am actually referred to your mis-application of it to the given scenario. Sorry for the confusion, i guess i didn't explain it that well. Basically, I'm saying i disagree with your application of the physics in a fundamental way.


>> Take a 47 story steel framed sky scraper, designed with a factor of safety (fos) of around 3. What does that mean? a factor of safety? well the top floor's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two floors on top (theoretically). Where did the failure of this skyscraper occur around the twelfth floor, ok so the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above, times the fos that's a part of the structure designed to hold up around 105 floors above it, put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing. OK so now you believe and want me to believe that a 35 floor mass can destroy a structure designed to carry a 105 floor mass, I mean that's absurd enough in and of it self, but in addition to this absurd conjecture you also want me to believe that the 35 floor mass can destroy 8 floors of structure designed to carry 105 floors (on average - each lower floor can carry 3 times the load so floor 11 = 108 floors, floor 8 - 117 floors etc) whilst decending at freefall i.e. according to the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum destroying those 8 floors with zero loss of either Energy or Momentum. FFS! Take it from me you're having your leg pulled if someone has told you that this is possible, they are taking the piss out of you and making you look a twat.

At last - an explanation. Just saying "its newtons law" is not an explanation - i don't have any problem with physics, i have a problem with how you are applying it.

These are the assumptions you have fucked up on and therefore your argument is tripe.....
1. Floor's dont support other floors in this type of construction. There are support columns which support the floors. Thats right, floor 12 does not support floor 13, the support columns do.

2. Floors are mostly skeletal in structure, ie. they mostly consist of thin air! Hence they have absolutely no supportive structure, so yes 35 floors would destroy 8 floors in the same way that a pack of cards would fall down. Repeat.... the floors do not have any real load bearing strength (or "structure" as you call it) in terms of effective support to stop a collapse.

3. I know exactly what a bit of gravity and freefall distance can achieve. I do a lot of climbing and know enough about fall factors and ratings of equipment. I know that a 80kg weight falling on a static line with just 1 foot of slack it it can break a dyneema sling which is rated to 22000Kn (2.2 metric tons static load). This has been done in experiments. Don't under estimate gravity, just a little bit of freefall acceleration on a mass can produce huge forces. In climbing it is tied to a thing called a fall factor and, if not taken into account, can break equipment that is x100 rated against your body weight if you used a static line with no elasticity in it. I am not surprised in the slightest that 35 floors would tear straight through 12 floors at freefall considering they are not even designed to bear a load (the support columns are - not the floors). I'm very surprised you think otherwise.

4. This has all been debunked about 1000000 times already. Just quoting Newton's Laws or Empirical Science is not an explanation. You have to apply the physics to the problem to make an explanation.

5. Just throwing around insults and going "its newtons law" is not an explanation either
It is what a sheep does..... instead of going "bah! bah!" You are going "Newton's Law! Newton's Law". If you think just quoting physics names makes you right then you are an idiot. You need to apply them to the problem not just quote names out of a list.

6. What about the videos that the terrorists pre-recorded saying "I did it"? Where does your Newtons law and empirical evidence fit into this?

7. What about bin laden saying "We did it". According to Newton's law this is obviously proof that terrorists did it

8. You sound like a terrorist sympathiser.

not a terrorist


Cool Vid

21.07.2011 18:59

Truthers Lie.


The Idiot Troll Fest Continues.....

22.07.2011 19:42

"newtons law is the magic bullet"

Newton's Laws are the magic bullets.

"21.07.2011 17:45
When i mean "i don't agree with your science", i am not referring to Newton's Law science, I am actually referred to your mis-application of it to the given scenario."

You are becoming incoherent.

It's not a 'mis-application' in the 'given scenario' presumably you mean WTC7. We have a mass accelerating under the Force of Gravity and you say Newton's Laws are being mis-applied Ha fucking Ha. Well we do know you are demonstrably an idiot arguing from a position of ignorance.

BTW that last vid with the "cool music" that the unfortunate Truthers lie pointed you at is a straw man and makes the huge error of saying that the collapse occurred at twice freefall the truth on the whole in my experience is that debunkers lie. They play a game of perception management and not Scientific discourse and any one who believes them is an idiot epsilon moron, Debunkers never engage with the science, that Science being Newton's laws and the Laws derived from Newton's Laws the Laws of Conservation of Momentum and Energy that would indicate that destroying something without energy is impossible and that's in effect what freefall for 2.25 seconds in WTC7 means, the destruction of 8 floors - storeys whatever your knit picking pedantry prefers- worth of structure designed for mg*fos, with no energy available to do that. Truthers lie is an obvious dunce and is using straw man arguments in desperation.

" Sorry for the confusion, i guess i didn't explain it that well. Basically, I'm saying i disagree with your application of the physics in a fundamental way."

>> Take a 47 story steel framed sky scraper, designed with a factor of safety (fos) of around 3. What does that mean? a factor of safety? well the top floor's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two floors on top (theoretically). Where did the failure of this skyscraper occur around the twelfth floor, ok so the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above, times the fos that's a part of the structure designed to hold up around 105 floors above it, put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing. OK so now you believe and want me to believe that a 35 floor mass can destroy a structure designed to carry a 105 floor mass, I mean that's absurd enough in and of it self, but in addition to this absurd conjecture you also want me to believe that the 35 floor mass can destroy 8 floors of structure designed to carry 105 floors (on average - each lower floor can carry 3 times the load so floor 11 = 108 floors, floor 8 - 117 floors etc) whilst decending at freefall i.e. according to the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum destroying those 8 floors with zero loss of either Energy or Momentum. FFS! Take it from me you're having your leg pulled if someone has told you that this is possible, they are taking the piss out of you and making you look a twat.

"At last - an explanation. Just saying "its newtons law" is not an explanation - i don't have any problem with physics, i have a problem with how you are applying it."

You do have a problem with Physics its very obvious you are in general ignorant of Physics and the Scientific method as evidenced in your previous abject utterances, e.g accelerates to freefall, and look here's a video and that "refutes" it, fucking nonsense.

So you grossly misrepresent what I'm saying which is that Newton's Laws say that freefall is impossible without the addition of energy the collapse would slow there would have to be sharp deceleration at any impact and its not observed at all here, very odd, these phenomena need a proper explanation and not a simple perception management campaign and a lame one at that, its very difficult, I'd say impossible to spin a Law of Physics and that's why Physics is cool you can't perception manage it away, try as you might, you have to be consistent within the Scientific Method. Frankly as you have already demonstrated on a few occasions you don't even know what that is, you are therefore arguing from a position of ignorance, i.e. your wasting my, your and anyone else's time, arguing as you do from a position of ignorance, it's foolish, you are a clown.


"These are the assumptions you have fucked up on and therefore your argument is tripe.....
1. Floor's dont support other floors in this type of construction. There are support columns which support the floors. Thats right, floor 12 does not support floor 13, the support columns do.
"
I know floor slabs don't support, they offer lateral resistance with sheer studs and other connections, their function is to transfer the live and dead loads to the vertical elements. When I say floor I mean everything that goes to make a floor, I use the term floor because I thought it would be easier to understand in the context of factors of safety, it helps to get a handle on how strong you need the structure to be the nearer the ground you get, therefore floor is a simple unit that divides the building up, maybe 'story' would have been better, and wouldn't have confused you, I know you're pretty dumb when it comes to the Scientific Method and your understanding of the consequences of freefall in what is reported to be a gravity only collapse, in terms of the Laws of the Conservation of Energy and Momentum your understanding is non-existant. As you are very willing to swallow whole, propaganda, lies and debunking videos its difficult to debate with some one who is convinced by perception managed arguments that steer clear of any real scientific inquiry and is arguing from a demonstrable position of ignorance, wilful ignorance at that.

Your methods are similar to those employed on Rupert Murdoch's Fox News.
Make the structure seem weak "house of cards" when the reality is that its a very strong structure designed to support 3 times the loads expected. this is exemplified in this next piece of garbage you offer...

"2. Floors are mostly skeletal in structure, ie. they mostly consist of thin air! Hence they have absolutely no supportive structure, so yes 35 floors would destroy 8 floors in the same way that a pack of cards would fall down. Repeat.... the floors do not have any real load bearing strength (or "structure" as you call it) in terms of effective support to stop a collapse."

The argument that buildings are mostly thin air is misleading because the 'thin air' you speak about would have an average density of a hard softwood. Your pack of cards analogy is also misleading, you forget the structure is cross braced and interconnected and designed to resist mg*fos throughout so that if an element fails the loads are transferred to the other elements in the structure, packs of cards also don't have factors of safety built in to them, again you are showing a lot of ignorance here.

It is clear that NISTs's single column failure scenario is also flawed and would appear to ignore factors of safety used in the design. One would not expect a single column failure to result in the complete destruction of a structure at freefall 1.5 seconds later, therefore the NIST model needs further examination which NIST refuse to allow, it needs serious examination in the context of the Laws of Physics that govern the destruction and it can't be done, any hypothesis needs to be dis-provable and as things stand the NIST theory is unscientific and to believe in it is just an act of faith.

"3. I know exactly what a bit of gravity and freefall distance can achieve. I do a lot of climbing and know enough about fall factors and ratings of equipment. I know that a 80kg weight falling on a static line with just 1 foot of slack it it can break a dyneema sling which is rated to 22000Kn (2.2 metric tons static load). This has been done in experiments."

Has it? well I'd like to see those experiments because what the calculations show is that the force would be 784N and the momentum after 1 foot of freefall would be ~799Nm/s not enough to break your rope unless it had an unusually high safety factor. I feel you're using this example as a way to manage the perception that the force impacting would be very much greater than it actually would be according to Newton's Laws (Oh and 22000Kn is not 2.2 metric tons its 2243.38 metric tons) and this very much exaggerated force then impacts the house of cards managed perception representation of the strength of the structure impacted, a usual 'debunker' trick that won't wash here. Who ever told you that is pulling your plonker and making you look a twat.


" Don't under estimate gravity, just a little bit of freefall acceleration on a mass can produce huge forces. In climbing it is tied to a thing called a fall factor and, if not taken into account, can break equipment that is x100 rated against your body weight if you used a static line with no elasticity in it. I am not surprised in the slightest that 35 floors would tear straight through 12 floors at freefall considering they are not even designed to bear a load (the support columns are - not the floors). I'm very surprised you think otherwise.

You're not surprised? well I am and think and you should be too because the Laws governing this say that there will be deceleration, freefall means there is no deceleration a surprising result and one that needs better explanation than the perception managed "massive" forces verses houses of cards type scenarios.

No one is underestimating Gravity, the problem you have is that you don't understand that there is a cost in terms of a loss of kinetic energy that the falling block would experience, you can measure it using video techniques every time something gets smashed into the energy required to do the destruction comes from the falling block its acceleration would fall and it would not continue at freefall, WTC7 does this for 2.25 seconds through 8 storeys of structure and mass as if its passing through air, to me the Laws of the Conservation of Energy and Momentum are being violated here, and this is a phenomenon that needs a lot of explanation, we have been offered an explanation from NIST and that explanation fails because it is based on a demonstrably false model. The NIST scenario also depends on what they call a new phenomenon "Thermal Expansion" which is not a new phenomenon at all, but in their model they set the parameter for thermal conductivity to zero, which is obviously not realistic and is foolish if the collapse depends on the action of heat, removing the heat transport mechanism is what I would call cheating. The NIST model also depends on lateral movement of parts of the structure that one would expect to have elements built in that limit lateral movement i.e. sheer studs, NIST remove the sheer studs from their model that depends on lateral movement, I would also call that unrealistic and cheating. So in order to answer these charges of dishonesty in their model NIST need to let it be peer reviewed and release the input parameters to their model, they refuse to do this citing "Public Safety" as the reason. So the official multi million dollar 'explanation' is very seriously flawed and needs open scrutiny to explain the 100 foot drop of WTC7 at freefall acceleration through a path where any normal person would expect there to be stuff in the way like the structure and the mass, anyone who is happy with what NIST have produced is an idiot.

"4. This has all been debunked about 1000000 times already."

Err no it hasn't in your tiny mind obviously debunking happens easily it just needs to say debunking on the tin and you think it's debunked, as I've mentioned elsewhere you appear to be a pre Enlightenment simpleton and are very gullible.

"Just quoting Newton's Laws or Empirical Science is not an explanation. You have to apply the physics to the problem to make an explanation."

Precisely the problem with the NIST explanation they have demonstrably ignored the Laws of Physics in their model (Heat Conduction e.g. is ignored). When they presented their draft report they said WTC7 fell with *constant velocity* based on the same idiot measurement style of alien_entity i.e a single data point, NIST went on to say that this was consistent with their model and the natural laws governing the collapse. When it was pointed out to them that there was an easily measurable period of freefall in the collapse they looked embarrassed, but acknowledged that they had missed it. In the final report they say that freefall was consistent with their model. So in the draft *constant velocity* was consistent, in the final report *freefall acceleration* was consistent with the model, but the model did not change and yet constant velocity and acceleration at g are both apparently consistent with their model, obviously there is something seriously wrong with that model because constant velocity and acceleration at any rate are mutually exclusive the model can't be consistent with both.

"5. Just throwing around insults and going "its newtons law" is not an explanation either
It is what a sheep does..... instead of going "bah! bah!" You are going "Newton's Law! Newton's Law". If you think just quoting physics names makes you right then you are an idiot. You need to apply them to the problem not just quote names out of a list."

We'll just going its progressive collapse its progressive collapse leaves you in a similar flock of idiots. What you're leaving out and constantly not addressing is the very clear implication that some other energy source must be being used to destroy structure and shift mass because the 35 floor block isn't doing it while its in freefall through 8 storeys of structure built to carry 3 times the load of the 35 floors /storeys above it.

"6. What about the videos that the terrorists pre-recorded saying "I did it"? Where does your Newtons law and empirical evidence fit into this?"

FFS! what a desperately fucking stupid question.

"7. What about bin laden saying "We did it". According to Newton's law this is obviously proof that terrorists did it"

Another dumb ass question 2 in a row!

"8. You sound like a terrorist sympathiser."

Fuck off you idiot

"not a terrorist"

No a confirmed idiot.

>> Take a 47 story steel framed sky scraper, designed with a factor of safety (fos) of around 3. What does that mean? a factor of safety? well the top story's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two storeys on top (theoretically). Where did the failure of this skyscraper occur around the twelfth story, ok so the 12th story is designed to support the 35 storeys above, times the fos that's a part of the structure designed to hold up around 105 storeys above it, put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing. OK so now you believe and want me to believe that a 35 story mass can destroy a structure designed to carry a 105 story mass, I mean that's absurd enough in and of it self, but in addition to this absurd conjecture you also want me to believe that the 35 story mass can destroy 8 storeys of structure designed to carry 105 storeys (on average - each lower story can carry 3 times the load so story 11 = 108 storeys, story 8 - 117 storeys etc) whilst descending at freefall i.e. according to the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum destroying those 8 storeys with zero loss of either Energy or Momentum. FFS! Take it from me you're having your leg pulled if someone has told you that this is possible, they are taking the piss out of you and making you look a twat.

Now until some one comes up with a viable explanation of how a building can destroy itself with no energy. I'm just going to repeat this.

N


@ N

23.07.2011 02:17

"well the top floor's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two floors on top (theoretically)."

-Nope, the top floor is designed to be the top floor.

"ok so the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above"

- Nope, the 12th floor is designed to be the 12th floor, the columns are designed to support all of the floors, the whole building had an FOS of 3 that was greatly reduced by stress.

"put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing."

- there was nothing careful about the mechanical pent house ripping through the building.

I need to point out your spelling errors, as you have tried to imply you are educated in science.

1. "freefall" is actually two words, not one - free fall.
2. "decending" is spelled descending.
3. "non-existant" is spelled non-existent
4." wilfull" is spelled willful.
5. "else's" - no apostrophe needed.
6. All of the following were used by you: Story, Storey, Storeys , Stories, and Story's when referring to levels.


So please educate us some more, we are all ears.

Truthers lie.


the truth is plain to see

23.07.2011 07:55

It seems pretty simple to me. "N" has failed to taken into account the human evidence:

A: America has said that the terrorists did it, not the American CIA.

B: Bin Laden and all the other terrorists said they did it.

C: There were plenty of mobile phone calls from planes to loved ones saying that there was islamic terrorists on board the flights who had taken control of the planes and were running around with fake bombs and killing flight attendents and pilots with knives (cowardly scum)

D: There is plenty of evidence showing that the terrorists pre-planned the attack

E: Some of the terrorists pre-recorded videos saying they were going to do it


Truthers like "N" cannot answer these points. All they go on about is free fall and newton's laws.

You are adopting the "we don't understand it 100% - therefore God did it." argument.
The truth is, people don't FULLY understand why WTC7 fell the way it did. Period. That doesn't mean it was a man-made demolition. Its not like a building that size gets hit by massive amounts of falling debris and is on fire everyday for us to study. There are millions of examples of events that have happened that we don't fully understand.

If your theories are so amazing, then you should publish them in a book:
a) You would be hailed a genius and become famous for exposing the truth
b) You would become rich
c) Everyone would think you are amazing and want to be your friend


At the end of the day, there is plenty of evidence that terrorists were involved without even looking at the buildings. Truthers seem to forget all that.

armoured banana


WTF?!

23.07.2011 17:15

OMFG.

"Take a 47 story steel framed sky scraper, designed with a factor of safety (fos) of around 3. What does that mean? a factor of safety? well the top floor's designed to hold the weight of itself and another two floors on top (theoretically). Where did the failure of this skyscraper occur around the twelfth floor, ok so the 12th floor is designed to support the 35 floors above, times the fos that's a part of the structure designed to hold up around 105 floors above it, put it another way remove 2 thirds of the structure (carefully mind) and it should still be standing. OK so now you believe and want me to believe that a 35 floor mass can destroy a structure designed to carry a 105 floor mass, I mean that's absurd enough in and of it self, but in addition to this absurd conjecture you also want me to believe that the 35 floor mass can destroy 8 floors of structure designed to carry 105 floors (on average - each lower floor can carry 3 times the load so floor 11 = 108 floors, floor 8 - 117 floors etc) whilst decending at freefall i.e. according to the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum destroying those 8 floors with zero loss of either Energy or Momentum. FFS! Take it from me you're having your leg pulled if someone has told you that this is possible, they are taking the piss out of you and making you look a twat."

-Well, right if the top floor can hold 2 floors on top, the 12th floor can hold 105 floors, floor 11 can hold 108 floors, and floor 8 can hold 117 floors then so far that is 2+105+108+117, which equals 332, and we have not counted every floor this way, now you can try to explain that this is not what you mean, but unfortunately that's exactly what you have done, you have given the building a FOS of over 100!

You have taken each floor, plus the floors above it and times by three. " each lower floor can carry 3 times the load" and can't even get the maths correct of you errant claim. You would have been wrong, but at least not so embarrassingly wrong, if you had said that the bottom floor supports 3x the floors above it, but by saying it so for each floor, that's a whopping blooper!

So, in your model the building is impossibly strong, with a FOS of over 100, and that's why it won't collapse.

Remember, trying to twist this won't work, the evidence is right there:
" each lower floor can carry 3 times the load"
- N

Dude!


NIST's Model

23.07.2011 18:31

Initiation of Phase 2 NIST Model
Initiation of Phase 2 NIST Model

So lets accept NIST's absurd single element failure scenario, lets even accept the ludicrous conjecture that a structure designed to resist mg*fos throughout is destroyed by a force mg and lets accept the NIST model right up to the point when freefall begins. On the way we'll be ignoring the removal of sheer studs that prevent lateral movement in a model that needs lateral movement to fail and NIST's miraculous turning of structural steel from a good conductor of heat into an insulator and all that entails in a model that depends on Thermal Expansion for failure.

So NISTs Phase 2...


This is the position (image above) according to the NIST model, of WTC7 at the start of their "phase2" This is where freefall begins and continues for 2,25 seconds. Lets ignore the fact that in order for the exterior columns to buckle in the model the top of the structure has to move 12 feet downwards though NIST say 2 meters in their report, the model has moved further and is something we don't see in the video of the demolition. Phase 2 begins when the top of the structure is still more or less where it was when the building was built (the top black line in the image above), this would tend to suggest that the buckling in the model did not actually occur in the real building, but let's ignore all these troublesome observations.

What you need to explain is how the remaining structure in and the mass of, that green marked section of the building, offers zero resistance to the falling mass above. Or how does the green marked section get destroyed with zero energy being supplied by the falling mass acting under the Force of Gravity? If you continue as you have been to avoid this then I'll just keep reposting it until you have a solution that is consistent with the Laws of Physics governing what's going on you know Newton's Laws and the Laws of the Conservation of Energy and Momentum.

N


do it boy

23.07.2011 19:04

> What you need to explain is how the remaining structure in and the mass of, that green marked section of the building, offers zero resistance to the falling mass above.
No we don't. Terrorists did it by crashing planes into the other buildings.

> Or how does the green marked section get destroyed with zero energy being supplied by the falling mass acting under the Force of Gravity?
Maybe it was a double collapse. Maybe the vibrations of the upper collapse caused the lower part to collapse on its own accord therefore not producing any resistance?
Or maybe the force of all the falling debris was so great, that any resistance by the green section was so negligible that it can't be measured by the video footage?
Maybe the fires in that region that had been burning for a billion hours demolished those floors to the point that they couldn't offer any real resistance that you speak of?

> If you continue as you have been to avoid this then I'll just keep reposting it until you have a solution that is consistent with the Laws of Physics governing what's going on you know Newton's Laws and the Laws of the Conservation of Energy and Momentum.
Why don't you write a paper on it rather than just reposting?
Then you could it in for peer review and so what response you get?

anon


Answer!

23.07.2011 20:12

"What you need to explain is how the remaining structure in and the mass of, that green marked section of the building, offers zero resistance to the falling mass above. Or how does the green marked section get destroyed with zero energy being supplied by the falling mass acting under the Force of Gravity? If you continue as you have been to avoid this then I'll just keep reposting it until you have a solution that is consistent with the Laws of Physics governing what's going on you know Newton's Laws and the Laws of the Conservation of Energy and Momentum."

Well you can stop re-posting, here is your answer !

watch:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkbDyAJuirg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Free fall acceleration on the north face only, does not mean no resistance, it means no net resistance - that means resistance can be canceled out by other forces in the opposite direction (internal collapse, with floors still attached to the columns, and perimeter dragging the building down). The other force in action is torque. That is why both NIST and David Chandler both found that for a brief period WTC7 fell faster than free fall - which cannot be caused by explosives, but can only be caused by moment of force, and by an object traveling faster that pulls on the target object - the internal collapsing floors.



Truthers Lie.


islamic terrorists did it

23.07.2011 20:18

There is still lots of evidence that Islamic terrorists did it even without looking at the buildings.

And bin laden seemed pretty keen to acceptable responsibility

the real truth


N

24.07.2011 08:43

"On the way we'll be ignoring the removal of sheer studs that prevent lateral movement in a model that needs lateral movement to fail"

You have already conceded this point by default when you were asked earlier to point out how shear studs ( not sheer) would prevent thermal expansion. It was also pointed out to you that many other components were not in the NIST report, because they were of no relevance.
I would also like to add, that why did the steel have spray on fire-proofing* if shear studs would stop thermal expansion? Answer: they don't.

* The fire-proofing was only rated to last for 2.5 hours, the building was on fire for 7 hours, the building relied more on the sprinkler system, which failed because the water supply was severed by the collapse of the north tower, building 7 would still be standing had the water not been cut.

Truthers lie.


Shear studs

24.07.2011 09:27

In Nist 1-9 pages 342-3 Shear studs are mentioned three times, and shear plates are mentioned three times and their locations are shown in a drawing, and the calculations shown include the shear studs and their locations.

That's why Truthers lie.

Truthers Lie.


On with the Troll Fest

24.07.2011 12:32

The clowns are still out and spreading disinformation and foolishness. So in an effort to 'refute' the fact that there is a serious and very obvious set of problems with the official narrative about what happened to WTC7 from a Physics point of view, we have in response to Empirical Science.

1. Some one on the telly said they did it.
2. You can't use a spell checker therefore it is refuted wow! twat or what?.
3. A bizarre and fantastic straw man argument that pointlessly re-calculates a known fos by multiplying mg for each floor by that fos and adding up the result and then dividing that result by 47? and then saying saying that that is the fos!, The fos is 3 dear, not 72 we know what it is dear there is no need to recalculate a known parameter dear, recalculating a known parameter by multiplying that parameter by another known variable and adding the result of each of n iterations and then dividing that result by n does not reveal the number you first thought of dear- the fos is 3 in WTC7.
Another dunce it seems the Troll Fest continues its dumb procession of dimwit Trolls.

OK so given the freedom of not having to explain how a single column failure leads to the total destruction of a structure designed to mg*fos throughout and i might add at freefall speeds we have a burst of creative output to explain away these phenomena, none of these fantasies however agree with the NIST explanation and model which states that.

"Global collapse occurred as the *entire building* above the buckled region moved downward as a single unit."

Or with the other constraints placed upon all of us, The Laws of Physics governing these events.

So it turns out that none of the clown Trolls actually agree with the official explanation or with each other.

Sometime happens in faith based movements like the anti truth movement once the articles of faith like the NIST model have been shown to be nothing other than an authoritarian fantasy they don't know what to make up next.

LMFAO!

N


islam terrorists still did it

24.07.2011 13:39

Passengers on board phoned love ones and said that a bunch of terrorists had taken over the planes.

N is a fool who is so caught up in his text books like a nerd. Concentrating purely on the science rather than what has actually been found out. He would make a crap policeman

And is so desparate to blame usa for everything

not a terrorist


lol.

24.07.2011 14:05

Trying to weasel out of your statement:

" each lower floor can carry 3 times the load"

= FOS of over a hundred, nice try, but it is obvious you fucked up.

You are also confusing FOS with DCR, and by doing so you prove that you actually know jack about building engineering, now I don't claim to be a scientist, (you kinda do, by earlier accusing other people of not being scientists) yet here I am, a layman, having to correct you over and over on your glaring errors.

"factor of safety" has a very specific meaning, and it relates to the design load, not the actual load. N is misusing the term. He should be talking about the Demand to Capacity Ratio. A "factor of safety" of 3 to 1 is a DCR of 0.33.

That my friend is your epic fail.


Dude!


Debunkers are full of shit

24.07.2011 14:06

Shear Studs

Yeah they mention shear studs in the report but don't put them on the girder that moved laterally and caused the single column failure fantasy to begin, or any girder for that matter. You know the single column failure fantasy that only happens in the NIST model a model where structural elements were set to fail at 75%, so in a 4 part structural element 3 failures of that component meant that the component had failed thus knocking a massive 25% of the integrity of the structure in their model. FFS c'mon!

A paper referenced in FEMA 403 from 1986 by the Project Manager for WTC7 at Frankel Steel Ltd, presented to Canadian Structural Engineers would indicate shear studs on the girders were used, NIST's model has no shear studs on the girders most/all Structural Engineers would put shear studs on the girders, they limit lateral movement. NIST don't put shear studs on the girders in their collapse model which depends on lateral movement to work. To remove one thing that would limit lateral movement from their model when there is documentary evidence to suggest that that thing was present is fucked up.

The lateral movement of a girder was according to NIST causally connected to their single element failure fantasy you know the one where a structure designed for mg * fos destroys itself at freefall with only a force mg acting. Three FOI requests have been sent to NIST to clarify the sheer studs on girders question and refused on the grounds of 'public safety', because obviously if your a teeeerrrrrroooorrrrisssst then knowing that a building does not have sheer studs on the girders means that the building could be destroyed by setting a fire near a girder and 'Thermal Expansion' takes care of the rest (if totally you ignore heat transport or conduction of heat through the steel frame). But the secrets already out! Just set your fire near a girder that has no shear studs and where the steel is an insulator and there you go teeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooorrrrrrrrissssssst act acomplished. FFS you dumb authoritarians will believe anything, so gullible!
Debunkers are full of shit.

N


Studs.

24.07.2011 14:24

Facepalm!!!!!!!!

Holy 2009 Batman!

Stud is another name for beam, this has been covered extensively, in fact NIST also use the term stud for a beam.

You also are probably not aware that NIST worked from the more accurate Canton (1985) design used in the construction (the paper you cite was not used for the construction, but for a presentation at a conference). The design NIST have shows NO SHEAR STUDS ON THE GIRDER!!!!!!

Maybe Canton was in on the conspiracy back in 1985?

All you have to do is open your mouth to lie.

Truthers lie.


Dude is dumber than the straw men he puts up and then knocks down

24.07.2011 14:49

Yet more straw men.

24.07.2011 14:05
Trying to weasel out of your statement:

" each lower floor can carry 3 times the load"

= FOS of over a hundred, nice try, but it is obvious you fucked up.

You are also confusing FOS with DCR, and by doing so you prove that you actually know jack about building engineering, now I don't claim to be a scientist, (you kinda do, by earlier accusing other people of not being scientists) yet here I am, a layman, having to correct you over and over on your glaring errors.

"factor of safety" has a very specific meaning, and it relates to the design load, not the actual load. N is misusing the term. He should be talking about the Demand to Capacity Ratio. A "factor of safety" of 3 to 1 is a DCR of 0.33.

That my friend is your epic fail.


Dude!
FOS=3 not "over a hundred" or even 72 if fos is recalculated 'correctly' using fos as in the dumb and dumber world of anti truth debunking
Structural Engineers understand what a structure designed throughout for mg *Fos means clearly you don't

N


Oh dear oh dear

24.07.2011 19:38

Chucking your toys out the pram and replying with " no, you fail" is not an answer to a very good point.

Listen, obviously you have missed your own grave error, you understand what logarithmic means? You described the floor system and it's capacity to hold up the building exponentially:

-Top floor holds up 3 floors (2+itself), next floor down holds up 4 floors (3 + itself) so at 47 floors, by your explanation, next floor down 7 floors (6 + itself). There is no way of getting away from that if you say each floor is able to hold itself, plus 3x the floors above - it's logarithmic, nice try though.

"That my friend is your epic fail. "

-You are unable to rebut the point.

I have no more to say, it is safe to say you have been taken to the cleaners, it's sad because I realise that the points you have been unable to answer, and the times when you have had too much pride to concede, and instead just ignore, means that you will repeat these canards again, and cover the same ground. It takes a real person to admit they have been wrong - that is not you.

Reading over the comments here, and taking a step back, it is very apparent your theories are whack, so thank you for helping others to see that, and that's important because many truthers are beginning to question their faith themselves, especially with Veitch having landed on earth.

You have helped.


Dude!


Lol

24.07.2011 20:05

Truthers lie.


Attention all 'Debunkers'

25.07.2011 10:10


REFUTE THIS:

Why the NIST WTC 7 Report is False by Kevin Ryan
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArnYryJqCwU

Socks


Dude is hand waveing

18.11.2011 23:28

Authoritarian following believers are so obviously full of shit Straw men and hand waving
what a bunch of wanksters.

N


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