Planned EDL Counter Protest in Bradford fails to raise eyebrows

Totally false.

A robust and confrontational counter demo in Newport in October last year was able to intimidate the EDL from arriving.

A combination of widespread mobilising and a uncompromising commitment to physical force meant the EDL were scared away.

In is well worth privately contacting EDL organisers directly in advance and leave them in no doubt as to the result of their actions. They can only sleep at night because if let them.

While i totally disagree with the idea of asking the state to ban the EDL i have some sympathy with the idea we do not want a big counter demo that, bored, will just kick off, and end, inevitably with many working class kids getting nicked and a further rachet down in race relations. It is sad that some on the Left are prepared to set up situations like this in the full knowledge that when the shit hits the fan they will be nowhere to be seen and they can later spout about racist police etc etc

However there is an alternative. That what is needed is, like with what Whitechapel Anarchists and non aligned socialists did in Tower Hamlets, to do a defensive action. In this case i guess it would mean occupying space in any routes up Manningham Road/Westgate/Thornton Rd etc. WAG etc stayed around the ELM ( not in anyway in support of that Mosque) but that was the area that of the EDL arrived would be the confrontation but MORE importantly where the police would start trouble.

Ditto in Bradford it will be the police who are the main aggressors and it is critical that unless the community as a whole has taken a decision to 'engage' that people are on hand to stop police violence.

If there is a counter demo it is critical it is discipled and community orientated.

While some elements in EDL are genuine in their hatred of extreme Islamic reaction that is a small part of the UK MUslim community, there are many who are agent provocateurs who want race war. it is critical we do not give that to them.

when spineless "activists" (read - idiots) are trying to control and/or call off even a counter-demo, you know that things are looking up for anti-state politics.

the truth of it is, by attempting to make the left and right appear the same, these leeches are working hand-in-glove with the council, police and the state, and also the EDL, who do not want you to turn up on the day, as they want a free reign. And guess what? the cops want to give it to them.

as for the many people arrested in the total valid street-fighting against the cops back in the day, which i remember vividly, did any of these parasites who are trying to call off the counter-demo engage in prisoner support for them? you can bet your last pound that they did nothing. they were the same shits and nobodies back then, or they were not even around.

lets make sure we build an aggressive anti-fascist movement that gives nationalism no quarter. get clued up, these 'Ingerlanders' want to size up and shut down the 'reds', lets unleash some terror on them.

No pasaran!

The intitial idea behind the Muslim Defence League was to DEFEND Muslims, their property and Mosques.

What this means is not to encourage youths into violent disorder or anti social behaviour on the streets but for a community led coalition of people and anti racist groups to speak out against the English Defence League publicly. To do this as a communities and for older people, white people, non Muslim people from local areas where EDL turn up to either join Muslims in local community led peaceful counter protests or to tell the youth to stay at home and we stand there in their place. This means for example that the vicar stands next to the Mosque in defence of that Mosque with old ladies etc. We are there to protect Muslim people, the Mosques, to defend them.

What appears to be happening with Bradford is that the UAF [a front for the SWP] is that they are encouraging violent dosorder for "the big one". They also intend to make a hell of alot of money from it while the people of Bradford whose shops will all have to close on the day for safety reasons will lose out financially. The UAF are arranging coaches from all across the UK for the "big one". When the UAF do this it encourages even more EDL out on to the streets which causes more trouble, more violence, more worried and angry youth out onto the streets too.

The UAF [SWP] do not care about the communities they are helping to disrupt. They are out to make money. The UAF were furious when a Muslim community arranged for local youth to go on free theme park trips [to either Thorpe Park or Alton Towers] when the EDL had planned to invade. The community involved wanted their youth safe, quite rightly. The community wanted the youth safe from the EDL and the police. The UAF were furious because large numbers of young people didn't turn up to join the UAF...on the streets and financially.
The UAF were again furious during the Whitechapel protest when around three hundred young people left the protest to go to Whitehall to join another Muslim group in peaceful protest against the English Defence League who had appeared down there. They were not furious or worried because the youth might have got into trouble but because they missed out on three hundred new recruits and their money. The UAF are tens of thousands of pounds in debt.

It's a shame to see that the Muslim Defence League United We Stand Divided We Fall group has been hijacked by the Socialist Worker Party. To begin with that group was headed in the right direction and was supported by many people. It has turned out that not all of them were even what they seemd ie Adham Hussain. Youth who have been encouraged to support the MDL UWSDWF of around 14, 15 and 16 years old are being used by SWP hardliners. Thugs from the group have sent death threats to the Muslim Defence League [a peaceful London based MDL with growing support whose head is currently doing a charity mountain climb for Muslim Aid].
The SWP hijacked version of MDL UWSDWF have tried to prevent the MDL from being active in any way by using threats, intimidation smear and lies. The SWP MDLUWSDWF have encouraged the youth in their group to pose in photos as a group with baseball bats. If anything is encouraging youth into violent disorder it is this. They have sent veiled threats to the Muslim Defence League and their supporters such as "you're going to get your fucking heads kicked in" and have even threatened to kill them. The SWP are showing their true colours. [A personal disagreement between a female member of Camden Antifash and an MDL member is seperate to this and the CA woman has apologised to the MDL person involved and this will hopefully be resolved]. The SWP are telling people that the SWP MDL UWSDWF is the "real" group and that the MDL is a ridiculous fake group run by the EDL. Adham hussain was an admin on the SWP MDL UWSDWF facebook page. He isn't a real person no one from the MDL in either group has ever met him and the MDL UWSDWF were asking who he was after making him an admin on the public facebook page. They have never had any meetings [they have stated this on the facebook page] anf are completely as yet disorganised. Richard Seymour of the SWP and his girlfriend Mary Allen of the SWP are now the biggest voices in MDL UWSDWF followed by Sayed Bokhari also of the SWP and UAF.

We had a sucessful protest in central London yesterday. No one was arrested and we got our point across peacefully that we oppse the EDL. We also let our local Mosque know that it was going ahead. While we have Muslim youth people on our facebook page from Camden who have very right to know about the EDL we would rather that the oldies and girls from our group and local area are the ones who turn out on demos to oppose the EDL on the streets. We want our local youth safe. This is what defending means. Defending mosques and defending our neighbours, sons, colleagues, partners and friends. Defending menas standing between the EDL and the people and places that the EDL are targeting. More anti racist groups need to do this. Mobilise locally.

We advise that young people do not go to Bradford unless it is to go and defend the Mosques. Go to Mosques and defend them. Steer clear of the SWP and the UAF. The UAF have a habit of encouring people into violence and then standing back to watch them get arrested. Keep away from the EDL. The EDL like street battles do not give them one.

This is my personal opinion and is not necessarily that of the rest of Camden Antifash.
We each have our own autonomy and while we share a united front against the EDL our opinions are each our own on other issues.

Stop the EDL! Defend Muslims and defend their property. Defend Mosques. Stop the EDL!

 camdenantifash@yahoo.co.uk

"We are not racist and we are not fascist!"

No-one believes you. Even your so-called "Sikh spokesman" uses racial language when talking about Muslims.

Many EDLers are also homophobic. During the Manchester EDL demo your thugs chanted to people leaving Canal Street as "arse bandits" and "shirt lifters", and hardcore fash scum like Wigan Mike posted comments on the internet about murdering Jews, which proves that the whole more-inclusive dogma thing is mere window dressing that cannot hide the fact that 99% of the EDL's streetfighters are racists and homophobes whose views are a trillion-miles from the bullshit Peter Mandelson-type spin that Yaxley Lennon and Trevor Kelway are posting on the net, to try to ensure anti-fascists fail to take the dangerous nature of the EDL seriously.

Piss off back to Stormfront, neo-Nazi EDL Muslim-hating troll!

If you think your tired and worn "we're not nazis" line has any impact anymore after your violent and racist actions in Dudley, think again.

Remember the boy who cried wolf?

At least the BNP pretend they are a bonafide political party. Your rabble just want to destroy multicultural cities like Bradford for your perverted kicks, wearing black fetish gimp masks.

Go and have a wank, EDL scum!

Andy while I applaud your efforts to organise a real peaceful protest how are you going to control elements like this who will be there on the day.

 http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130747350275846&index=1

The EDL has spent so long vilifying Muslims now that they have created the enemy they always wanted. I can't see a peaceful conclusion to any demo now no matter how well organised and stewarded it is initially. I don't want the EDL to go unopposed but surely the best opposition for them is the police and surely the best thing for the police is to only concentrate on one demo. Splitting there over stretched forces to two different groups is a fatal error but one they are being forced into. If all the anti fash organisations got together to demand a ban of this demo, but at the same time insisted that the police turn up anyway as some EDL will still turn up just like in 2001 with the NF, then enough pressure would be applied to get the government to act (Cameron has already brought up banning the EDL before) there would be a chance that the riots could be avoided.

Sorry Dave not Andy! It's late I need sleep.

" while I applaud your efforts to organise a real peaceful protest how are you going to control elements like this who will be there on the day."

I don't know what the group you identify are doing but it sort of proves my point. Even if HnH and some trade unions do nothing, inevitably others will. Some as Camden antifash argue may be a bit dodgy. But that is why we need a democratic, secular and working class mobilisation. If we cannot get such a focal point for self-defence and dissent, dissenting Asian youth will go elsewhere.

Dave I'm only suggesting that some of the effort that the many groups are putting into organising counter protests could go into getting them banned from demoing in Bradford as well. I know full well that HNH's 'no counter at all' is idealistic. I'm suggesting a third way in effect, although HNH and the Bradford telegraph and argus already have petitions but if all the anti fash voices were in agreement here it would be virtually impossible to ignore. Camdens right in their analysis suggesting that anti's should concentrate on Mosques and not just be stood across from the EDL seeing who can shout louder. Generally I promote that people should try and engage the EDL in communication for a long term solution but Bradford is different it needs a peaceful and controlled protection force on the day not a counter protest. In other words any antifash going need to support the police and not see them as the enemy too. I seriously hope there is no idiots who attempt to take the EDL's allocated demo point like in Bolton. Ayway I'm just waffling now, good luck with it all.

With all due respect Dave Matthews is actually lying when he says HNH's position amounts to a call to "vacate the streets", as (if Dave's been paying attention) he knows perfectly well that HNH's position has been to (quietly) support most anti-EDL counter-protests, but not to support physical confrontation, because violence generates the kind of PR coup/s the EDL stage their protests to try and get in the first place. As for HNH wanting to "allow the EDL to do as they please" that's also lies. What HNH want is for the POLICE to contain the EDL, as (unless Dave Matthews is the kind of activist who's so radical he'd fight to liberate someone who'd murdered his own mother from capture and arrest by the police) it's better on balance for the media to report the EDL rioting against the police than it is for the media to report Muslims rioting against whites. As for HNH cosying-up to politicians who create the inequalities off which the extreme-right feed - maybe get back to us after you've fought and won the glorious revolution, Comrade ;)

Neither "we" (who?) nor HNH are "relying" on the State. HNH are HOPING the State will ban EDL's Bradford demo, as a "lesser of 2 evils". Put it this way, when EDL, SIOE & BNP activists tried to march in our area - Harrow - twice, we (meaning local people) put loads of effort into trying to get the protests banned, and when the State ignored us, as a "Plan B" overwhelming shows of opposition did after the 2nd protest eventually force the far-right to fuck off. We physically drove EDL and BNP out of our area, and STOPPED a small number of other outsiders attacking the police (but not out of any love for the police). The media reported the many and diverse non-white Anti-Fascists as being "Muslim youth" (which was a gross over-simplification) giving BNP and EDL propaganda trolls enough "evidence" to misrepresent our actions as a "Muslim riot". So, while confrontation did succeed in getting rid of the EDL etc, to an extent we also failed by handing the EDL / SIOE / BNP a PR victory of sorts, which the BNP tried to capitalise on by putting videos about "Muslim riots" on You Tube and by leafletting Harrow soon after (when they were again told to in no uncertain terms to fuck off) - so there is no point in not telling the truth that the strategy of physical confrontation was a mixed blessing for us.

I'm familiar with and respect all sides of this debate, but in practice "working-class resistance against the EDL" type arguments tend to come from ideological opportunists who think building-up support for their hard-left or anarchist ideology is more important than defeating the intended effect of EDL provocations; and in many towns "community" resistance usually means a few dozen, if you're lucky a few hundred, anarchists and leftists who (with exceptions like Harrow, Glasgow and Edinburgh etc) would be wiped all over the floor by far greater EDL numbers were it not for the EDL being contained by the police. I don't know whether the kind of folks people who attend Bradford's 1 in 12 etc can muster a strong enough force to defeat the EDL in a straight fight, but in all honesty I doubt they can, and am deeply suspicious of left-wing agitators who want to send ordinary people into battle against the seasoned thugs and football hooligans of the EDL in order to serve long-term revolutionary ideals and aspirations that (noble as they are) will in all probability never happen

If there's not a counter demo by let's face it, mainly white lefties and anarcho's, then what is there? There's just gonna be the mainly Asian lads who aren't gonna stand by whilst a load of racists march through their city and what's that gonna look like but more fucking race riots, at least it's harder for them to call them race riots and provoke more far right support when a sizeable minority if not majority of opposition are white.

As for the comment about how "the UAF have a habit of encouraging people into violence and then standing back to watch them get arrested", I've not once seen the UAF encourage violence, but when it briefly kicked-off in Harrow (between young people and the police, after the EDL had already fled) we went up to the UAF who seemed uninterested and who left it up to us and Mosque stewards to physically disarm lads who were starting to attack the police (and for anyone who thinks we were doing the State's dirty work for them, if this hadn't been stopped, not only would the BNP have been jumping up and down with joy at the inevitable news reports, but the police would have counter-attacked and massacred the kids who'd started on them, with in all probability many serious injuries and arrests). For all their faults the cops showed great restraint on that day, and it was the UAF call-out which brought many white people into the counter-protest, undermining far-right claims that opposition to them was all Muslim.

These are complex and delicate situations, involving dozens of sometimes conflicting beliefs, ideologies, cultures and interest-groups, and simplistic knee-jerk responses often don't help. There is no "magic wand" solution because the EDL was formed and strategised specifically to attack multiculturalism and to attack liberal values at what the extreme-right sees as their weakest point - which is the point at which the largest numbers of conflicting ideologies interact. We have to recognise this and to acknowledge that Anti-Fascists need to remain united and friendly because of (not despite) our disagreements, as all dis-unity among us is a victory for them.

Signing the HNH letter to Thersa May isn't a bad idea.

 http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/StoptheEDL?source=EDLletter&utm_source=growth&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EDLletter

When Hitler was behind the stormtroopers and other bullies targeting Jews millions died. Are we going to stand back and watch state sponsored persecution...counter protests? Find out who the real EDL are and smash their fucking houses up, chase them out of town. It didn't happen with Hitler and loo what happened...fuck the EDL and fuck them properly.

We white people do not support the EDL. The EDL and whoever is behind them want race riots on the streets. We need as many white people as possible out on the streets to oppose the EDL.

Muslim youth...stay at home.

We're going out to oppose the EDL as they are doing this in our names and we do not support them.