Finally (not including the bumbling first attempt that was swiftly ‘hidden’ on Indymedia), at long last, Leeds AF have issued a statement about the incursion of 5 EDL members into a ‘militant antifascist’ meeting they held on July 3rd. Unfortunately, it raises more questions than it answers.
Bearing in mind the importance of this incident, and the acrimony that has surrounded it – the boastful crowing of the EDL, the numerous (around a dozen) ‘hidden’ threads on Indymedia, the derision of other antifascists – not to mention the embarrassment caused, it really is pretty poor that Leeds Anarchist Federation have taken so long to issue this statement.
Obviously, we take all posts and comments by the EDL with a very large handful of salt, but there have been numerous posts and comments on Indymedia, which are clearly made by genuine antifascists, and which do not paint Leeds AF in a flattering light. What we can say about the meeting for certain is as follows:
1) It was not very well advertised.
The only place it was advertised appears to have been Sheffield Indymedia. Since only 10 antifascists apparently turned up, including Leeds AF themselves, it was very clearly not well known about.
2) No other local antifascist groups appear to have been invited.
Leeds has a good reputation for militant antifascism, with an established Antifa group and numerous old AFA members active in the city, but these people were not there. Had they been, things would have been very different. Comments on some of the ‘hidden’ threads appear to indicate that they were not invited.
3) Security for the meeting was very poor.
There was no re-direction for the meeting and it was held at the pre-advertised location. There was no security, either at the venue entrance or at the door of the meeting room itself. Five unknown individuals (who turned out to be the EDL) were ‘buzzed’ into the meeting simultaneously.
4) At some point the EDL announced who they were. They were not confronted physically. Nor were they physically ejected, but left of their own volition after having had their say.
Leeds AF now appear to be trying to sugar-coat this disastrous meeting – badly conceived, badly advertised, badly attended, and badly secured. That does not change what actually occurred, an incident quite shameful for antifascists with pretensions of militancy, which has wider implications for antifascists outside their group. To characterise the EDL incursion as “at most a mild inconvenience” is not only shameful, it is fundamentally dishonest.
It might be regarded as trying to run before they’ve even started walking, but in view of the fact that Leeds AF claim to want to build (or at least ‘head up’) an antifascist coalition in the city, why did they not first of all establish their own antifascist credentials and enter into talks with other antifascists operating within Leeds? Not to have done so smacks of both arrogance and stupidity, not to mention sectarianism. Perhaps the truth is that they simply have SWP-like aspirations for recruitment, and did not want to be ‘shown up’ by the attendance of more experienced antifascists. That said, bearing in mind the numerous dismissive and derogatory comments about Leeds AF on the many ‘hidden’ Indymedia threads, perhaps any approach would have been rebuffed, possibly for good reasons. Why did the AF not at least put some substantial effort into advertising the meeting, beyond a post on an Indymedia site in a different part of Yorkshire? Considering their lack of effort in this regard, they can hardly be taken seriously.
Since this was a meeting called to discuss a militant antifascist response to the EDL, and considering that the EDL have a recent track-record of turning up mob-handed to anti-EDL meetings, not to mention the track-record of West Yorkshire police, it really is inexcusable that security for the meeting was so incredibly lax. Incredibly, Leeds AF are now claiming they “were aware of the EDL’s intention to attack the meeting” prior to it taking place! Yet they still did not employ any proper security measures, thereby endangering anyone who might have turned up. Frankly, their belated claims to ‘preparedness’ sound like bullshit. One wonders what the AF’s response would have been if someone outside the AF (assuming there were actually other antifascists there) had done what they shamefully failed to do themselves, and confronted the EDL. Would they have been backed up, or restrained and even thrown out? More than likely, none of these, they would have simply been ‘on their own’.
Whatever occurred inside the meeting, and one might be inclined to take both AF and EDL accounts with a large pinch of salt, the AF got off very lightly, and things could have been far worse. However, in view of the fact that no ‘re-direction’ was employed and that the meeting took place in the advertised venue, the possibility that the meeting may have been monitored by the police cannot be discounted.
Nationally, AF policy is supposedly to take on the EDL “head on” – physically – so the belated weasel excuses of Leeds AF for not physically confronting the 5 EDL members who provocatively walked into their meeting sound rather pathetic. Just what kind of ‘militant’ antifascist ‘coalition’ is this?
Judging by the numerous comments of those within the city of Leeds who know members of Leeds AF, the fiasco does not come as a surprise. The group appear to have a poor reputation locally, and so it is perhaps unsurprising that so few antifascists attended their meeting (bearing in mind that the total number was around 10, one wonders how many of those attending were not in the AF.)
Leeds AF may have been able to manipulate Indymedia coverage of the incident, but undoubtedly the truth is out there, and what has occurred has only further damaged the reputation of a group that seems to have been “piss-poor” to begin with. If we are to genuinely confront the EDL, both in terms of what they pass off as ‘politics’, and on the streets, we are going to have to do a lot better than this. Genuine antifascists might well consider looking elsewhere, or working autonomously, before they compromise their security and their personal safety by being taken in by a group with no apparent experience of confronting fascist groups and no idea of how to go about it. Leeds AF appear to be a shortcut to a kicking or a jail cell, and are at best a waste of time.
Obviously, we take all posts and comments by the EDL with a very large handful of salt, but there have been numerous posts and comments on Indymedia, which are clearly made by genuine antifascists, and which do not paint Leeds AF in a flattering light. What we can say about the meeting for certain is as follows:
1) It was not very well advertised.
The only place it was advertised appears to have been Sheffield Indymedia. Since only 10 antifascists apparently turned up, including Leeds AF themselves, it was very clearly not well known about.
2) No other local antifascist groups appear to have been invited.
Leeds has a good reputation for militant antifascism, with an established Antifa group and numerous old AFA members active in the city, but these people were not there. Had they been, things would have been very different. Comments on some of the ‘hidden’ threads appear to indicate that they were not invited.
3) Security for the meeting was very poor.
There was no re-direction for the meeting and it was held at the pre-advertised location. There was no security, either at the venue entrance or at the door of the meeting room itself. Five unknown individuals (who turned out to be the EDL) were ‘buzzed’ into the meeting simultaneously.
4) At some point the EDL announced who they were. They were not confronted physically. Nor were they physically ejected, but left of their own volition after having had their say.
Leeds AF now appear to be trying to sugar-coat this disastrous meeting – badly conceived, badly advertised, badly attended, and badly secured. That does not change what actually occurred, an incident quite shameful for antifascists with pretensions of militancy, which has wider implications for antifascists outside their group. To characterise the EDL incursion as “at most a mild inconvenience” is not only shameful, it is fundamentally dishonest.
It might be regarded as trying to run before they’ve even started walking, but in view of the fact that Leeds AF claim to want to build (or at least ‘head up’) an antifascist coalition in the city, why did they not first of all establish their own antifascist credentials and enter into talks with other antifascists operating within Leeds? Not to have done so smacks of both arrogance and stupidity, not to mention sectarianism. Perhaps the truth is that they simply have SWP-like aspirations for recruitment, and did not want to be ‘shown up’ by the attendance of more experienced antifascists. That said, bearing in mind the numerous dismissive and derogatory comments about Leeds AF on the many ‘hidden’ Indymedia threads, perhaps any approach would have been rebuffed, possibly for good reasons. Why did the AF not at least put some substantial effort into advertising the meeting, beyond a post on an Indymedia site in a different part of Yorkshire? Considering their lack of effort in this regard, they can hardly be taken seriously.
Since this was a meeting called to discuss a militant antifascist response to the EDL, and considering that the EDL have a recent track-record of turning up mob-handed to anti-EDL meetings, not to mention the track-record of West Yorkshire police, it really is inexcusable that security for the meeting was so incredibly lax. Incredibly, Leeds AF are now claiming they “were aware of the EDL’s intention to attack the meeting” prior to it taking place! Yet they still did not employ any proper security measures, thereby endangering anyone who might have turned up. Frankly, their belated claims to ‘preparedness’ sound like bullshit. One wonders what the AF’s response would have been if someone outside the AF (assuming there were actually other antifascists there) had done what they shamefully failed to do themselves, and confronted the EDL. Would they have been backed up, or restrained and even thrown out? More than likely, none of these, they would have simply been ‘on their own’.
Whatever occurred inside the meeting, and one might be inclined to take both AF and EDL accounts with a large pinch of salt, the AF got off very lightly, and things could have been far worse. However, in view of the fact that no ‘re-direction’ was employed and that the meeting took place in the advertised venue, the possibility that the meeting may have been monitored by the police cannot be discounted.
Nationally, AF policy is supposedly to take on the EDL “head on” – physically – so the belated weasel excuses of Leeds AF for not physically confronting the 5 EDL members who provocatively walked into their meeting sound rather pathetic. Just what kind of ‘militant’ antifascist ‘coalition’ is this?
Judging by the numerous comments of those within the city of Leeds who know members of Leeds AF, the fiasco does not come as a surprise. The group appear to have a poor reputation locally, and so it is perhaps unsurprising that so few antifascists attended their meeting (bearing in mind that the total number was around 10, one wonders how many of those attending were not in the AF.)
Leeds AF may have been able to manipulate Indymedia coverage of the incident, but undoubtedly the truth is out there, and what has occurred has only further damaged the reputation of a group that seems to have been “piss-poor” to begin with. If we are to genuinely confront the EDL, both in terms of what they pass off as ‘politics’, and on the streets, we are going to have to do a lot better than this. Genuine antifascists might well consider looking elsewhere, or working autonomously, before they compromise their security and their personal safety by being taken in by a group with no apparent experience of confronting fascist groups and no idea of how to go about it. Leeds AF appear to be a shortcut to a kicking or a jail cell, and are at best a waste of time.
Comments
Hide the following 30 comments
Leeds antifascist
12.07.2010 13:41
In response to the article, just want to say that beating up 5 EDL members in the Swarthmore centre isnt what I see as militant antifacism, thats just a bit stupid and a not so clever way to get police attention. So many leftists are so set on there theoretical tactics that they leave no room for flexibility in any situation. Is there not a difference between confronting 5 EDL (quite probably not even fascists) in an education centre and fascists when they are mobilising on the streets?
Leeds antifascist
background info
12.07.2010 13:42
the statement from leeds afed on the meeting is here:
reader
Militant antifascism
12.07.2010 15:11
Antifascist
Swarthmore centre
12.07.2010 15:50
Sceptic
Are anti-fascists wannabe chocolate soldiers?
12.07.2010 16:40
There is constant talk of mobilising, marching and show strength. These are things the army does except without the real danger.
By their very definition, anti-fascists wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for fascists.
I am 100% sure that your average militant anti-fascist would have to find something else to relieve their boredom if fascism didn't exist. Some equally inane form of pseudo-safe violence like supporting football.
sid
Sid
12.07.2010 17:21
Antifascist
Come on
12.07.2010 18:06
As an anarchist involved in many years in London there needs to be a renaissance of militancy but also political organising - not much is around. Whilst groups like Antifa and 635 Group are CLOSED groups where do the rest of the people get involved in. Both those groups have excellent analysis from a working class perpective of how fascism develops and how it can be defeated, so why hide that away.
Maybe Leeds AF is a convenient punch bag of the failures of anarchist antifascist groups, but lets not deflect it for the sake of letting everyone else of the hook. Bad organisation we can deal with and improve upon, but that can't happen if people stand on the side lines and not advise these groups ( no matter how young or physically unable you seem to think they are ). The only way people are going to listen to you if they respect and trust you, "makno" statement may be right but it offers no hand of solidarity or attempt to involve AF in this process.
Its not about whose right or wrong, its about improving a vastly depleted movement with some sense of itself and some unify purpose.
Solidarity from London
London Anarchist
"the importance of this incident"
12.07.2010 20:39
Durruti's mate's cousin's babysitter
storm in a teacup
12.07.2010 22:10
I wouldn't be surprised if this article was posted by EDL members just seeking to shit-stir.
anon
What is important about this incident
12.07.2010 22:20
Old Guard
i'd be laughing myself silly
13.07.2010 09:59
if i were edl
"Purist" antifascism?!
13.07.2010 10:19
Black & Red
ANTIFA
13.07.2010 10:41
Against the EDL
The meeting
13.07.2010 10:49
anon
Worth a look
13.07.2010 11:10
B.A.
Pureist antifascism
13.07.2010 11:33
Ali Bongo
EDL at the meeting
13.07.2010 11:45
Leeds anti-racist
Laughing themselves silly
13.07.2010 12:13
NSG
A true anti fascist alliance
13.07.2010 15:32
Anti
Brief spot of pedantry
13.07.2010 17:53
At the risk of sounding like the Judean People's Front, I'd just like to say that Yorkshire Anarchist Group is not the same as the AF. Yorkshire AF is just the people in Yorkshire who're in AFed, Yorkshire Anarchist Group is not linked to any national org and doesn't really have a fixed set of principles in the same way. It was YAG who organised that launch party a few months back.
One of Yorks AF
Green, Green Grass!
13.07.2010 23:14
Plenty of those 5000 banning orders to prevent known hooligans attending the World Cup were as a result of Yaxley-Lennon (Tommy Robinson) turning into a trusted police informant.
If Leeds Antifa had acted against the EDL fascists violently, the coppers would have taken sides once again.
That's why they didn't act!
BBC
interesting quote from the EDL forum
13.07.2010 23:17
s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3541077/2/
---------------------
one comment about what preceded the more detailed report (and I can't believe I'm saying this).. but I think it might be a bit unfair to keep railing on about 'Lefties'.
I've done it myself, more than once, but we risk alienating decent people if we keep bundling them all together. I consider myself on the Right, but though I do struggle to understand the Left at times (and many others on the 'Right' of course) there's no reason why we can't be on the same side against radical Islam
Some of the Left are unpleasant (as are some of the Right no doubt), but once confronted (as Charles, Snowy, and others have done), there's a chance that they could switch sides.
I think we risk undoing that good work if we continually attack 'the Left' - we're not simply a Right wing group.
Left and Right Unite! (and all that)
------------------------
anon
another quote from the EDL forum
14.07.2010 00:47
It's funny how "prolier than thou" they are - usually an attribute of some lefties!
It reminds me of the kind of ideology that was associated with the mainstream Oi movement (not the fascist Ois) in the 70s and 80s - anti-establishment to a degree, not overtly racist but not really into challenging the system or the people who hold the real power. There is certainly some potential there for progressive thinking if the hardcore fascists don't get them.
I'm not sure where the fixation on Islam comes from. Certainly it is unpleasant, like all religions, but does it really have that much of an impact on their lives? Is it an after-effect of events like 9/11 and 7/7? Is it encouraged by anti-Islamic interests like Israel?
----- begin quote -----------
You have to laugh at them, Charles and I may be close but not that close we are the same person.
Working class lmao the guy chairing the meeting was only working class in his dreams tbh most of the lefties if not all of them looked like they came from a much better back ground then I ever did. Thats the problem in this country the liberial left thinking they represent the working class man, when they have no clue what we want or what our fears are. How do uni students understand the struggles of growing up with none or little money when daddy pays for everything, having hand me down clothes, mum butchering your hair cos she couldn't afford to take you barbers, Dad working all day, doing jobs on a night and a weekend just so he can provide for his family. No luxuries, no foreign holidays (except when I was in my teens when they both cashed in their life assurance to send us aboard to visit family), no fancy car etc he worked hard for us but we hardly ever saw him as kids and to this day we are still quite distant. Especially now a days cos he can't see what his so called working class party has done to this country and Mr University had the cheek to blame the current Tory government, how can they actually believe and say the state of the country is down to someone thats been in power about 2 months, when we all know who fcuk us and this country over big time.
Charles have covered most of it very well but I will try to recall the full convo to the best of my knowledge.
Snowy "hi we are antifascists from Wakefield and want to know how we are going to bash the Fascists?"
Silence worried faces everywhere
Snowy "Come on what were the success's at Newcastle, how do you intend to stop the EDL?"
Mr Uni " Who are you again"
I decide to take a seat as one of them got up to stand near the door
Snowy "You know who we are, how do you intend to stop us?" (whoops force of habbit find it so hard to talk about EDL as third person)
Silence
Snowy "You know who we are, we are EDL and want to know how you intend to stop us?"
Mr Uni "can you leave please"
Snowy "no and shut up, you stated on your website that you want to militantly fight the EDL and we want to know how you intend to do that, militantly fight not debate so you are thinking of using violence, we could quite easily brought 50 lads today and just smashed you"
Big norweign lad tries to leave to have a cig
Snowy "where the fcuk you think you are going, no one leaves here you'll only phone ob" Charles blocks his path and tells him to stay put, he just stand there shaking don't know why as we have not at anytime threatened anyone
I then picked up an labour leaflet about milliband
Mr Uni "what you doing with that"
Snowy "having a look thanks and how are you working class then"
Mr Uni " I worked 20 years in steel industry (I put my house on it that it wasn't on the shop floor)"
Snowy "what do you do now"
Mr Uni "I work in the university sector"
Snowy " that explains it all, I was brought up by a shop steward and taught that labour was a working class party voted for them in 97 and then Tony Blair lied to us and took us to an illegal war never voted for them since"
Silence with the odd nod of aggrement
Mr Uni "what about the loss of jobs and this Tory government
Snowy "we are a single issue group and labour fcuked this country"
Mr Uni "can you leave you are just a bunch of racists, Tommy has been outed as being a member of the BNP"
Snowy "firstly if that is him it actually says former member, well I'm a former crackhead burglar but as you can see I ain't anymore"
Mr Uni "can you leave please we are having a meeting, how would you like it if i came to one of yours"
Charles "shut up sit down he's talking" lol
Snowy " Not a problem we have one wednesday I'll pick you up at top of M606 and take you with me and you can speak to our lads as we believe in free speech thats why we've come for a debate"
Mr Uni " Its ok just tell me where it is I'll make my own way"
Snowy laughs "yes course you will more like phone ob to stop it"
At this point I decided to ignore Mr Uni completely as it was like talking to a brick wall, so I just addressed the others
Snowy "So you all want to over throw the government and make this country into a communist state"
Various "we don't want that"
Snowy "Of course not but some of the left do, I would be stupid to say you all do yet you all believe the propoganda that we are all racists, yes we have racists who attach themselves to us but we are weeding them out and will continue to do so. If you examine the BBC staff list you would find racists there the same with most big organisations. If it turned out EDL was a racist organisation then I and thousands of others would leave, not just because they trust me for what I have done but also cos its what they believe in, if you don't believe me go on to exposing racism on facebook and ask Darcy Jones if she thinks Snowy is a racist, one of my best mates in EDL has a mixed race partner and kids, the lad that has gone outside has a mixed race family so how can they be racist, I don't care what colour someone is, I just want to live in a free country. Please don't listen to the propoganda open you minds and see whats going on we have to stop the extremists no matter which side they are from, I have never been a football hooligan I'm just a working class lad that is worried about the future of this country I don't want to live under sharia law"
Mr Uni "it will never happen" he was now irrelevant so I just ignore him
Snowy "All I ask is you look at this with an open mind and not believe all the propoganda, have we been aggressive or attacked you in any way no, we could of easily just waited outside and attack you when you left but we only want to debate with you"
Has I said at the start I have remembered this too the best of my knowledge, I may have the odd word wrong and missed bits out. Basically I chaired their meeting for a good 10/15 mins and those that know me once I start its hard to get a word in edge ways lol I will say some of them did have the decency to listen. I offered my hand to Mr Uni and Ten men but both declined, I also only took one photo while in there of Ten men as he seems the sort that will be trying to use violence against our supporters.
I did also notice that one of our brothers had sat amongst them at the other side of the room and had been involved in a convo with them what was said I don't know but at no time did any of them seem threaten by his presence in fact they seem to listen to what we had to say which Mr Uni didn't like at all. For the record the most attractive female in the room was of mixed race hardly the thoughts of a nazi racist. We left as we arrived in a orderly fashion thanking them for they time.
If that is the sum of people they can gather together as a coalition of antifascists we really don't have anything to worry about.
For the lefties reading this no matter what you do we will always be a thorn in your side and I will do whatever is necessary to stop you brain washing the youth of this country and you my have the uni's of this country due to the fact you use fascist style methods ie only allowing one point of view put to the students but when they leave and have lived in the rat race then the majority will realise the lies they have been fed and drop you like a bad habbit. You are also going to see a shift in the future as the next generations leave school cos EDL is already spreading to the youth and they are our future not yours.
Socialism is something most people grow out of EDL is for life, fighting a losing battle is pointless and we all know you will stand side by side with radical Islam rather then admit you are wrong well you have been warned if they get their way and introduce the Sharia into British law do you really think you will be treated better than the rest of us. Wake up before its too late they are the real fascists and tbh your point blank refusal to listen to anything but your propoganda makes you no different from the fascists you say you are against.
Regards Snowy
NO SURRENDER
-------------------
anon
EDL
14.07.2010 10:25
Dangermouse
I'm not racist but........ I hate p*kis
14.07.2010 10:26
The oldest trick of self-deception in the book.
I feel sorry for the lack of intelligence in the EDL ranks if having a handful of uncletoms in the ranks lead EDLers to convince themselves they are not racist.
Even PW Botha of Apartheid South Africa had subservient mixed-race ("coloured") people he knew, but this didn't stop him being a murderous racist.
Worse still, didn't Adolf Hitler call Jewish composer Johan Strauss "an honoury Aryan", while murdering 6 million people in the Holocaust.
EDL, ROT IN HELL!!!
Uncle Tom Hater
I'm not racist cos....
14.07.2010 10:37
LOL
SELF-DELUSION AT ITS WORST!
EDL = RACIST SCUM
bloo
Correct
14.07.2010 11:03
Dangermouse
Posturing Sectarian Bullshit
03.08.2010 23:56
I was actually this infamous meeting after being invited by Leeds AFED along with many others on the left. That only us trots from AWL took up the tells you more about the sectarian state of the left in Leeds.
I just want to let you know some facts to cut against the macho postring and sectarian crap in the posts above-
1, The entire point of LAFN is to get away from both the class collaborationist cretinism of UAF/HnH and the clandestine macho posing of non existent anarchoid groups. As far as I can see based on the idea they wanted an open call out to all working class fascists the Leeds AFed people naively did this on the internet. Yes this was an error but a understandable one.
2, The so called text of the conversation between "snowy" and my comrade is mostly bullshit. At all times they were banging on about how peaceful they where and that they where not up for a fight. I confronted some of them about the cuts and stuff and they came across as politically confused working class guys not hardened fascists. Snowy on the other hand came across as a tiresome Tory dullard.
3, Why did we not beat them up- many reasons:
a, At no point where they physically threatening us. I for one could not physically attack someone who is merely trying to talk to you (whatever bullshit they are saying)
b, militant anti fascism for me does not mean starting on EDLers. It means the use of force and self defence as one of many political tool in the wider campaign to defeat organized fascism and racism.Violence is not a principle.
c, One of the aims of working class anti-racism has got to be to win working class people away from the EDL by offering a alternative programme or analysis. It is not often you get to argue with green rank and file EDLrs (which apart from Snowy they all where).
They left, we stayed and continued the meeting. Lessons have been learn't and we have continued to organise. If genuine proletarian anti fascists want to get involved they can. Just email
POUMist
e-mail:
revolutiondave@gmail.com
Grow some opposable digits
05.08.2010 09:55
Dont you see that this is why the left is a joke to most people?
Have you watched 'life of brian'?
Go play fight somewhere else dickhead.
Herm
Antifa documentary
09.02.2012 12:28
deal with that, their views and the actual people. Anyone in the area who would be willing to talk to me or know anyone who would be willing to, I would massively appreciate it if you could email me at
Chris
e-mail:
chris_gibson_93@hotmail.com