WORK KILLS – and it fucks up your kids too.

This is a very important and mostly misunderstood subject, even by those who consider themselves progressive in their thinking.

The present social and employment situation is unnatural and is doing a lot of harm to people in general accross the board. It is high time that this subject was given greater attention.

Many like myself, have spent years of our lives labouring for rude and ungrateful employers who pay only a fraction of what our labour and skills are worth. In addition, tax and other political tributes are taken without our consent before we are handed our payslips. The majority of wages and salaries are now paid directly into bank accounts, who also usually take a slice and then we have to pay rent, rates, food bills and vat on top of all that.

Most people are no better off at the end of the month than they were at the beginning!

We need to devise a completely new economic, aswell as political social framework so that we can live as real human beings and not as serfs. Centralised government and banking institutions have been the worsed thing to ever happen to humanity. They have taken it upon themselves to plan and arrange every aspect of our lives. Bloody cheek... I am quite capable of organising my own life, just as most others are, and instead of paying taxes and rates, I would rather choose who I am prepared to help. I would happily contribute financial help for disabled or sick neighbours... but I resent tax money being taken by politicians and civil servants that don't really do much much when you study the situation, but have very expensive lifestyles that we are expected to pay for.

Keep government small and local I say... we don't need all these middle men. All these licensing laws and other economic controls that politicians and lawyers have devised to limit our activities should be swept away. Lets have a truly "Free Economy" and I'm sure, everyone will be a lot, and I mean a lot better off.

All the best,

This article is a perfect illustration of why Socialist, Marxist and Anarchist politics has failed. This is so completely detached from the actual working-class, who want jobs and work.

Marxist and Anarchist politics departed company from the real issues and concerns that affect working class people many years ago, leaving them with a contradictory ideology that by definition cannot go anywhere.

You can work and get paid
You can not work and not get paid
You can go self employed and fail or succeed
You can work your way up a skillset and get better paid
You can stay in your current level of job
You can pack in a job and get another one
You can start a business and employ people to work for you
You can moan and opt out of doing anything
You can work really hard and get lots of money

Seems like a lot of choices are available.
If you are fed up with an employer taking their cut, then work to become self employed
Or even become an employer and provide other people with jobs.

The idea that a p60 should carry a government health warning is stupid
Why not have one for not working too?
The most ill, depressed and stressed i've ever been was then i wasn't working.

Has it occurred to you that some parents choose to both work so that they can afford a bigger house? And that some parents choose that only one of them works so that one can stay at home with the kids? Or maybe both parents work they my brother and his wife because.... they want to!

The correlation between two working parents and a child with a slight chance of a less healthy liftstyle is just a correlation. It doesn't mean its a direct correlation. You get plenty of reports that spot correlations. Its doesn't mean you can draw direct conclusion of fact from it. Im sure you'll find that either groups of blue or brown eyed parents are better/worse too. Just because there is a correlation doesn't mean anything.

I could write a study of how I found out that there are higher concentrations of unhealthy people are in hospitals and therefore conclude that hospitals are bad and should all be closed down.

It could be that both parents working means they can afford to pay for better food and conditions for their children but just need to tweak their diet etc.

And the idea that people who don't have children should contribute to a social wage for people who do reap the benefits of having children is ridiculous. If you have a couple who choose NOT to have a child because they want to spend their earnings on travelling the world then that is their choice. Equally, if a couple wants 6 kids and are prepared to work hard to feed them then that is their choice also. Stop interfering in peoples lives.

This is an old phrase that is a socialist sop to their capitalist bosses.

It may surprise you Harrier, but I am not a Marxist, Communist or any other type of 'collectivist'... neither do I relate to the mainstream media definition of an Anarchist, which you seem to be implying. Nor are many others that have had enough of the status quo.

Regarding yourself as 'working class' is no better than the 'untouchables' of the Hindu caste system who resign themselves to their fate. Well, I don't accept that, never have and never will. I'm prepared to fight for my human dignity, freedom and rights. I am not accepting the crumbs that the self-styled 'ruling classes' care to toss in my direction like a grateful dog.

They have declared war on us... they have stolen our land, forced people into serfdom and imposed their arbitrary rules and regulation on ordinary people. Not just in this country, but around the world. In many countries the people are fighting back... it's about time people in Britain and Europe did their bit, instead of acting as meek, cowardly accomplices in the oppression, exploitation and industrial slaughter of innocent people around the globe.

People who work for the 'government' or labour in the arms factories and suchlike are traitors to the rest of the human race. You think we are out of touch? Well, I think people like you are in for a very nasty shock in the very near future... I think you will be surprised at how many people have had enough of this bullshit that the puppet governments and mainstream media are trying to feed the public.

They will be defeated by passive aggression... in other words people will peacefully withdraw their support and co-operation with the governments and corporations... leaving them high and dry.

Remember: "Whatever they can do; we can do better"

I don't think the government has much to fear from you - after all, if you don't work, and they decide not to give you benefits, then you starve. Problem solved.

Incidently, if no one worked, how would you be able to get your hands on a shiny new computer so you can post your ramblings here? Who would be making them?

(French: La propriété, c'est le vol!) is a slogan coined by French anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in his 1840 book What is Property? Or, an Inquiry into the Principle of Right and of Government.

If I were asked to answer the following question: What is slavery? and I should answer in one word, It is murder!, my meaning would be understood at once. No extended argument would be required . . . Why, then, to this other question: What is property? may I not likewise answer, It is robbery!, without the certainty of being misunderstood; the second proposition being no other than a transformation of the first?

—Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?

By "property," Proudhon referred to the Roman law concept of the sovereign right of property – the right of the proprietor to do with his property as he pleases, "to use and abuse," so long as in the end he submits to state-sanctioned title, and he contrasted the supposed right of property with the rights (which he considered valid) of liberty, equality, and security.

In the Confessions d'un revolutionnaire Proudhon further explained his use of this phrase:

In my first memorandum, in a frontal assault upon the established order, I said things like, Property is theft! The intention was to lodge a protest, to highlight, so to speak, the inanity of our institutions. At the time, that was my sole concern. Also, in the memorandum in which I demonstrated that startling proposition using simple arithmetic, I took care to speak out against any communist conclusion. In the System of Economic Contradictions, having recalled and confirmed my initial formula, I added another quite contrary one rooted in considerations of quite another order – a formula that could neither destroy the first proposition nor be demolished by it: Property is freedom. [...] In respect of property, as of all economic factors, harm and abuse cannot be dissevered from the good, any more than debit can from asset in double-entry book-keeping. The one necessarily spawns the other. To seek to do away with the abuses of property, is to destroy the thing itself; just as the striking of a debit from an account is tantamount to striking it from the credit record.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

Copyleft is a play on the word copyright to describe the practice of using copyright law to remove restrictions on distributing copies and modified versions of a work for others and requiring that the same freedoms be preserved in modified versions.

Copyleft is a form of licensing and can be used to modify copyrights for works such as computer software, documents, music and art. In general, copyright law allows an author to prohibit others from reproducing, adapting, or distributing copies of the author's work. In contrast, an author may, through a copyleft licensing scheme, give every person who receives a copy of a work permission to reproduce, adapt or distribute the work as long as any resulting copies or adaptations are also bound by the same copyleft licensing scheme. A widely used and originating copyleft license is the GNU General Public License. Creative Commons provides a similar license called ShareAlike.

Copyleft can also be characterized as a copyright licensing scheme in which an author surrenders some but not all rights under copyright law. Instead of allowing a work to fall completely into the public domain (where no copyright restrictions are imposed), copyleft allows an author to impose some, but not all, copyright restrictions on those who want to engage in activities that would otherwise be considered copyright infringement. Under copyleft, copyright infringement can be avoided if the would-be infringer perpetuates the same copyleft scheme. For this reason copyleft licenses are also known as "reciprocal" or "viral" licenses.[by whom?]

While copyright law protects the rights of the creator by providing control of distribution and modification, the idea of copyleft is to grant subjective libre freedom to end users. Copyleft licenses specify clauses which explicitly remove those restrictions the creator considers to not provide libre freedom to the end user. In software, open source copyleft licenses place the primary restriction that information helpful in supporting modification of software (e.g. source code) must be made available to a user with a copy of the licensed software and allows the original author to be acknowledged.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft

 http://underclassrising.net and those who write for underclassrising all work is copyleft, barnsdale is an active part of underclassrising, IMC say there copyleft but an admin has promoted there anti working class attack, perhaps said admin needs to do more resurch instead of comeing out with such blatent attacks on the working class..

You can make weapons parts
You can upsell to large (+ a muffin?)
You can work for G4S transporting immigrant children to detention centres
You can brown nose Rupert Murdoch half your life
You can modify maize starch and stick it in as many food products as you can think of
You can work your way up a sexual skills set and get better paid
You can “manage” other sex workers
You can work for a multinational oil company polluting the planet
You can get an ethical job and be really self-satisfied while 95% of everyone else does the dirty work

It is very foolish of some to assume that all those who post on these boards are receiving social benefits. Speaking for myself, and there are many others like me, who make a good living by trading in a variety of products.

I set up my own trading business a few years ago... reluctantly I might add, because I don't really like to conform to these arbitrarty rules and regulations manufactured by arrogant fools. I have also learned how to avoid paying tax, which is quite legal... ask any corporate CEO or government minister, they all do it.

I have learned to work smart, not hard... and I no longer work for employers. Indeed, it is not even like working, more of a hobby as I thoroughly enjoy making money and working round the system. I choose to whom I shall donate money, rather than leave to the crooks in Westminster.

The reason I post on this forum is to both share what I have learned and to learn from others... something some people seem to find impossible. Perhaps there brains have turned to porridge while reading the gutter press like 'The Sun' or 'Daily Mirror' and watching too much TV. These are the truly ignorant in our midst... the indoctrinated and brainwashed sheep that bleet and break wind everytime they see or hear something they don't understand.

We are in a period of transition... many understand that we must be realistic and work the system at the same time as we change it. If you are looking for the real social parasites, you have to look no further than Buckingham Palace, Westminster and all their hangers on.

isn't underclassrising really a really, really fucking posh twat? the zac goldsmith of the urban poor?

Some of the comments above just prove my point.

The left wing, socialist and also anarchist politics of today is so far removed from the actual working class, the issues that face working class people, and what working class people find important.

Working class people want jobs.

For those of you that say that there is no working class anymore, then I say to you - go back to university or your parents middle class safety net.

How about when you're done making your arrogant generalisations you go and do something? Seriously, where is the point in merely winning some perverse form of self gratification through just simply dismissing things in public places, why not acctually do something that benefits someone else? How about go to a meeting, or more, of one of the various groups on the left and acctually see their differences and what they acctually say, rather than uselessly criticising from the comfort of your computer. I think you'll find that most marxists, anarchists, socialists (love how you so simply equate them all together like that) acctually, while criticising the system of wage slavery, respect the will most people have to work to make enough to survive. Surprisingly, wanting to work enough to survive and be as comfortable as possible in this society, dosn't make you unable to criticise the system of work or die. Not wanting to work for a corporation dosn't mean you wouldn't necessarily want to work for the sheer benefit of the community and for self sufficiency in a better world. Also, I think you may find that debate exists among the leftists you generalise so much, on the issue of work. Many anarchists have a more primitivist outlook based on self sufficiency, as compared to the other extreme that many socialists have of simply making the system work for people at the bottom end of spectrum. Then there is everything in between, from horizontal federalist organising of the anarchists and other left libertarians, to the state organised cooperatives of the marxists.

Idleism is not about doing nothing but going with the moment, there is no aim or objective any structure in the formation like the Music of Sun Ra it has to be a free flow, it has to come from within the inner self, your actions are the message you are but a conduect in the form it has to be this way, you are free to as you are told, in idleism we are all the prophets there are no leaders for the idle, it is asked you walk from work to never return, allow yourself to move from what work education has told you, in the detritus of life another man's rubbish is your treasure, we should rejoice in unemployment.

"Idleism is dark history it is beyond black any from of ideology Idleism is so vast it can not be called a truth it's above the truth"

Idleism is not from the planet you name as your home as Earth, one has been compelled to be here, so anything i do for this planet is because the master creater of this universe is infroming me, we are all of another dimension we are on this planet we call earth to move forward in Idleism, join us in unemployment the only truth of this universe"

Working Class people are obliged to have jobs.

Working Class people want houses.
Working Class people want money.
Working Class people want cars.
Working Class people want holidays.
Working Class people want luxury goods.

Working Class people are obliged to have jobs.


Want and obligation are not the same thing. Which is why the stupidity of "Working Class people want jobs" is stupid. Given the choice of what they want, the Working Class do not choose jobs but houses, money, cars, holidays.