Activists Attacked at Circus Demo

has this circus actually harmed animals or is this theoretical? I would have thought it was promoting respect for horses, a good thing in this age of the motorcar and telly

We have had a run in with them in the past, very agressive people. The police are useless...

"Clearly genuine animal rights activists do not hold negative views against any race, as they would respect all life. The claims of racism put forward by members of the circus were completely fictitious. "

What complete twaddle...the ALF SG Newsletter was founded by a right wing facist (Ronnie Lee in his eternal wisdom thought it was irrelevant as long as he fought for AR), in the late 1990's Jewish members of the fur trade association were subjected to anti-semetic abuse by London animal rights campaigners and more recently Gateway to Hell demos have had support from BNP members.....

So you are saying then Michael Caine that anyone who is compassionate towards animals is a racist? Could you cite evidence for your ridiculous statement please.

It's just that I've never known any racist who has compassion for animals, Iby contrast know Jewish animal welfare people, black people who are compassionate towards animals and people from all countries and all races, some more famous names include Benjamin Zephaniah, the West Indian poet, also Alexie Sayle, the Jewish comedian, Mahatma Gandhi, Albert Einstein, Alice Walker, Isaac Bashevis Singer and many, many more.

As for the BNP, these people fully support foxhunting and Mr. Griffin claimed that he was 'devastated' when foxhunting was banned. There are numerous links with the far right and blood sports enthusiasts.

The BNP highjacked a demo against "Halal Slaughter" not because they are against animal abuse-as they support fox hunting-but because it is done by muslims.

Circuses that claim "property rights" over "their animals" are all about physical domination,behind the scenes beatings with pipes,whips and even electric shocks(uncovered by animal defenders international) and practical denial of freedom,there are plenty of undercover investigations into "animal circuses" by Animal Defenders International and others of the same ilk,that should impell all decent people to be against the use and abuse of circus captives.

"So you are saying then Michael Caine that anyone who is compassionate towards animals is a racist? Could you cite evidence for your ridiculous statement please."


No Badger, you plonker, I am not saying that...re read my posting. I am merely rebutting the proposition put forward by Sheffield Animal Rights Group that "Clearly genuine animal rights activists do not hold negative views against any race" . If you subscribe to the notion that the AR movement is made up of people from all walks of life the obviously alongside the lefty Guardian readers, anarcho punk squaters, Daily Mail reading nurses and Socialist Worker teachers you will have some AR activists who hold far right views. Sheffield AR make a very precise statement which can easily be rebutted. That is all I am saying...The evidence is well documented, although Tim makes a very good point about ritual slaughter, but their is no getting away from the London activists anti-semetic stance against fur traders in the 1990's or Hans Rueusch happily giving interviews to far right publications such as National Front News or the ALF SG being founded by aN organiser for the Britsh Movement.

Well in any movement or group you will get an extremist, but you cannot attempt to tar an entire movement with the same brush as a few extremists.

Regarding your claims, please refer me to available links to substantiate these. I have read some of Reusch's books and I have never read any racist literature whatsoever in any of them, so please give me further evidence of this. I am also interested too in these 'Gateway to Hell' campaign which is, according to you, recieving support from the BNP, as I have found no evidence of this whatsoever. And i note that you have been strangely silent on the BNP's and the far right's ardent support of foxhunting, which is very well documented.

Are you telling the truth, or is this another smear?

Hans Ruesch did publish in a far-right magazine but not because he was or is racist(in his books he condemned the experiments on black people in America,no racist would do that) but because every other media outlet-mainstream or non-mainstream-in the UK either completely ignored his books(despite him being a successfull novelist,and the media always reviewing his literary work) and articles or scissored out the most relevent bits thereby minimizing the impact of his message,the only organization who said they would'nt do either was that far-right organization,Ruesch made no apologies for this as he lived in Italy and said "they have to get their message out somehow".

OK Badger,

A link to BNP website www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=571

BNP activists who were en route last weekend (7th) to Paris to take part in the Front National’s annual family festival, BBR, joined in a street protest to express their disgust and anger with the decision by Dover Harbour Board to allow the passage of 12,000 live sheep to France.The BNP is seriously concerned that the export of animals has resumed after a nine month cessation of live shipments. To make matters worse, these sheep were destined to meet a rising demand throughout October for sheep meat amongst French Muslims, during the run up to the Islamic Festival of Eid.So the sheep suffer on their long voyage and meet their fate at the hands of those who conduct ritual slaughter. A BNPtv team caught the protest on camera outside Dover Docks HQ and can be seen over on BNPtv.

Tim should have answered your points on Hans Ruesch, and good points that were made too !

Badger, this is not a smear on the AR movement, if I was going to do that I wouldn't be using Indymedia...how many people do you think will ever read this ??? This is nothing more then reasoned discussion, with Tim around any attempted smearing would be blown out of the water.

OK Tim. You make another good point that go's towards the intent of Hans Ruesch, however would that cut any ice with a fur trader who had anti-semetic obscenities shouted at him ?

My original statement was to dispel the myth perputated by Shefffield AR and I stand by that; "Clearly genuine animal rights activists do not hold negative views against any race, as they would respect all life. ".....What complete twaddle....

Michael, the statement issued by Sheffield AR is in the main correct, I fail to see how you have disproved it in any way. It is more of an ideal rather than a fact, but as such I feel this is not wrong, and applies to the vast majority of people who are concerned wtih animal welfare. Compassion for animals, not race, is the major issue with AR Sheffield.


Regarding the actions of the BNP and their supposed support for animal rights, well, I'd like your comments on this, as well as the sympathies some (not all) foxhunters have with the FAr Right and racism:


After the Hunting Bill was given Royal Ascent the extreme right-wing British National Party (BNP) announced that: "BNP supporters were devastated by the news earlier this week that the New Labour regime had banned the age-old tradition of fox-hunting. The legislation will stop a sport which has an important role to play in the maintaneance of Britain's unique landscape and rural economy."

Whilst many hunt supporters are opposed to the BNP's racist views it is equally true that the everyday language of many hunt publications is often composed of barely disguished racism and homophobia.

The BNP clearly believe that many hunt supporters might be favourable to their right-wing views and use many of the same keywords (e.g. 'Freedom', 'Tradition', and 'Liberty') used by the Countryside Alliance to advance their cause.

Some famous and non-famous hunt supporters have found themselves in hot water over racism.

A bookmaker was fined after he admitted yelling racist abuse at a Countryside Alliance march in 2002. Peter Smith of Chelvey Batch, near Backwell, who works in his family's bookmaking business, was fined £500 and ordered to pay £55 costs at Bow Street magistrates. He was voicing his support for the Countryside Alliance during the march at Whitehall when he clashed with Mr Khan. Mr Khan was demonstrating against hunting and was waving a banner when Smith went up to him and tapped him on the head with a plastic hunting horn before hurling racist abuse. Smith admitted a charge of using racial abuse.

On the 13th January 2005, foxhunting Prince Harry appeared on the front page of The Sun wearing a German desert uniform and a swastika armband. More than six million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis.

Pro-hunt MP Ann Winterton was recently sacked from the Parliamentary Conservative Party after publicly joking about the deaths of the Chinese cocklers who drowned at Morecambe Bay and refusing to apologise. It was the second time that Mrs Winterton, 62, has found herself in trouble over racist remarks. Mrs Winterton was joint master of the South Staffordshire Hunt, and served for five seasons as their field master as well as belonging to the Masters of Foxhounds Association. She still occasionally goes out with the Forest and District Beagles in Cheshire.


Police rescue Gerald Kaufman MP from pro-hunt mob was assaulted and racially abused him
Anti-hunt MP Gerald Kaufman was physically assaulted and racially abused by a mob of Countryside Alliance supporters at the Labour Party conference in Brighton in September 2004. In keeping with the biased media coverage this incident wasn't reported in many papers whilst Teletext simply reporting that he had been "jostled."

No matter how much the leaders of the hunting fraternity might wish to disassociate themselves from extreme right wing views racist and homophobic comments can be easily found on any hunting forum including Horse and Hound's but the worse comments can usually be found on the forums used by terriermen. The owner of one such forum even named his dog 'Nigger'.

An example of a recent forum post:

"I would not want to be in the same party as AW [Ann Widecombe]. Principally I see her vociferous support for a ban on fox hunting as a betrayal of our cultural heritage. [...] I would compromise on the hunt if we could replace foxes with asylum seekers. Do you think Ann W would agree?"

"MP's nominally representing Labour's hardcore city voters; Reds, "queers" , Blacks and social-security dependents will swing in favour of the destruction of the English countryside and its traditions."

"Exactly, the real reason is because fox hunting is an English tradition it must be banned so that we can all become Marxist student union members."

"Ideally I'd like to see us go back ti hunting wild boar with spears, but it will be a while before the BNP gets that arranged."

"At the next Hunt meet (The Oakley Hunt) I will drink a stirrup-cup and shall celebrate the glory of one of England's best country traditions. All there whether peasant or patron are white nationalists to a man (or woman) and unlike the knuckle-dragging image that some urbanites choose to present ; Hunting and national patriotism are entirely complementary."

"I think we will see huge scale civil disobedience in Britain one day. I hope it happens in my lifetime. And I believe it is the only way to stop ZOG from erasing our way of life. There are millions of people who don't see taking drugs and dancing to disco music as recreation. The way things are going that will be the only option."

"I hate the fox for what it does to other wildlife."

"Hunting is deeply embedded in the folk lore and traditions of our country. It is natural. And it is participated in by far more people than red-coated aristocrats. Go to Wales and look at the people who populate the hunts there. And then look at the scumbag protesters and ask yourselves, whose side should we be on? As advocates of blood and soil, we should support the rights of those people who still work the land to determine their own lives. Those who seek to ban it are largely urban, anthropomorphising freaks. In the future, as our cities descend beneath the ethnic waves, it is n the country that we will be building our barricades."

"It is all an integral part of the Politically Correct war on the institutions of the white race, so another unique, hundreds of years old, national tradition like Chistmas, Guy Fawkes , and countless others, will bite the dust, to make it easier for them to impose the Jewish new world order."

"It's not a problem. If fox hunting's banned there's plenty of other vermin to be quarry, Pakis, blacks, wiggers, peados....the list goes on."

I might add Michael, that I have heard similar racist rhetoric myself from foxhunters with my own ears.

I do not see how you have disproved the stament issued by Sheffield AR. Although I certainly don't agree with a lot of their methodology and especially the extremist stance that a minority of animal rights sympathisers take, nevertheless as said, animal welfare,not racism, is their main issue. I would be grateful for your comments on the above links between the far right and foxhunting, as well as other points I have raised.

"Well in any movement or group you will get an extremist, but you cannot attempt to tar an entire movement with the same brush as a few extremists. "


Badger, that is your admission that I am right.

Remember all I am doing is commenting on the statement "Clearly genuine animal rights activists do not hold negative views against any race, as they would respect all life. The claims of racism put forward by members of the circus were completely fictitious. "

Sheffield AR had no right to make such a precise statement. Are they able to speak about all genuine animal rights activists ? Every single one? The ones in Sheffield, the ones in Bath, the ones in Brighton ????... I think not.

I think that Sheffield AR have to now post explaining that statement. Why ahve they been so quiet?

I also think that London AR should comment on the anti-semetism used in the 1990's.
OK, badger and Tim, you make good points about the BNP, hunting community and Hans Ruesch . I take my baseball cap off to you.

I see your point of view, but technically speaking this does not invalidate Sheffield AR's statement.
To use an example, many followers of Buddhism,including the Buddha himself, believe in respect for all life (similar to Sheffield AR). In saying this though not all Buddhists are perfect and certainly a small minority have no respect for life at all, witness murderers and muggers living in Bangkok for example. But this does not invalidate this ideology or the noble aim of Buddhism, and which is true of the vast majority of Buddhists.

Similarly there has been recent controversy about paedophile priests in the Catholic Church (shoot the bastards that's what I say), but the actions of these priests does not mean that all priests are paedophiles, nor does it invalidate the wrods of Jesus Christ 'suffer little children'.

The statement by Sheffield AR cannot be one hundred percent applicable to all animal rights people, but then again no ideal, religion or ideology can ever fully apply to absolutely all its adherents. If aims, mission statements or ideals are broadcast by any movement, political party or religion then following your assertions (which are correct) then this would result in a farcical situation with codicils and disclaimers being issued at the end of every rhetorical speech, or 'small print' on the end of every leaflet. In the main though it is true for the vast majority of their adherents, and I feel that for the vast majroity of people in the animal welfare movement, that very, very few indeed are racist, and that the statement issued by Sheffield AR applies and is correct.

Hmmm... interesting analysis....for more on Buddhism see the latest Arkangel.

Badger, does that mean then Sheffield AR are allowed to define what views a genuine AR activist can hold. Does that mean there are guidelines issued by Sheffield AR as to what what views a genuine AR activist should hold - a sort of membership criteria for genuine AR activists.

Doesn't that bother you ?

What other views should genuine AR activists hold? Shall we have a brainstorming session? Can they be listed ?

I would still like to hear from Sheffield and London on this...where have they gone to???

Well Sheffield AR of course as you say should not define what a genuine AR person's beliefs should be. But from my own personal experience I have never found an AR person to be racist. I have seen many AR people attack the institutions of their own country, as no doubt Sheffield AR do. As said, their main focus is on animal cruelty, not race, and I am sure that they would welcome with open arms persons from other races who share the same beliefs in this resepct as they do, indeed, they have probably done so already. A genuine AR person's main motivation would be to minimise animal cruelty, however I have found that such people, the vast majority of them, have compassion towards suffering people too. As St. Francis of Assissi once said in the twelfth century 'If you find a person who is cruel towards animals, then that person will often be cruel towards his fellow man'. Animal rights people tend to be a very cosmopolitan group of people, animal welfare issues after all can never be confined to a race or a religion or an age, such issues tend to cut across such boundaries, bringing people of different ages, nationalities, classes and races together.