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Tell Michael Howard to Cut Kent's Section 28 Red Tape

imcista | 07.01.2004 14:19 | Gender | Sheffield

The Conservative Party has launched a website encouraging voters to tell the Tories which bits of "bureaucracy and red tape" they would like to put an end to.

Following the repeal of Section 28 in England and Wales, Sir Sandy Bruce-Lockhart of Kent County Council has pledged to keep in place Kent's policy to "not publish, purchase or distribute material with the intention of promoting homosexuality".

It is impossible to 'promote' homosexuality. Being lesbian or gay isn't something you choose because it is advertised - it's part of who you are. What Kent's policy means is that gay people living in the county, particularly those who are young, won't have access to the support and resources that they need.

If you'd like to tell the Rt Hon Michael Howard MP, a Kent MP, that you think this piece of "red tape" in his constituency should be abolished, visit  http://www.cutredtape.org/ and submit your message. We hope that he will then keep his promise and make sure this needless (and damaging) regulation is scrapped.

As a favour, you could always cut and paste the text prepared below:

Following the repeal of Section 28 in England and Wales, Sir Sandy Bruce-Lockhart of Kent County Council has pledged to keep in place Kent's policy to "not publish, purchase or distribute material with the intention of promoting homosexuality".

I believe that it is impossible to 'promote' homosexuality. Being lesbian or gay isn't something you choose because it is advertised - it's part of who you are. What Kent's policy means is that gay people living in the county, particularly those who are young, won't have access to the support and resources that they need.

I would like to tell the Rt Hon Michael Howard MP, the Member for Folkestone & Hythe, that I think this piece of "red tape" in his constituency should be abolished as soon as possible.

imcista

Comments

Hide the following 27 comments

...yeah, nice one...

07.01.2004 14:42

there must be other MP's in Kent to write to - these resources might help:

 http://www.locata.co.uk/commons/

 http://www.election-maps.co.uk/

 http://www.faxyourmp.com/

ever yours

lionel

lionel blair


Kent update.

07.01.2004 16:28



The QueerYouth Alliance has ben campaigning on this since last October.

Other locals have been wirting letter to local Kent newspapers and latterly to
Kent's Tory councillors (40 odd) Tow of whom we know are sympathetic to getting it
repealed. One reps in Michael Howard's constituency! The other voted against the
original proposal.

There was a demo last November outside County Hall and S28 was brought up at meeting
on 15 Dec(Tory Gp) and the main Council meeting on 18 Dec.(by Labour leader Mike Eddy).
It seems many Tory councillors are basing their 'opinions' on complaints from
constituents about 'cottaging' and 'cruising' mainly in west Kent.
But S B-L is also trying to maintain that it's only about 'unreasonable material' being
available in Kent schools and other KCC services. -without defining unreasonable of
course- and the suposed 'promoting' on homosexuality. (as if you could).

Next meeting of KCC is Monday 12 Jan at County hall,Maidstone 10 am. A quiet presence
is likely to be held-at this meeting-just to remind them we're not going away.
The S28 subject may well be raised again.

Also; The LOcal Government Asso (LGA) has just published a new guide for Councils on
LGBT people and services.
Entitled. "Sexuality -the New Agenda'. It is to be used to help UK councils ensure
that any LGBT residents and employees are protected and recognized as equal citizens.
and that councils fulfil their obligations under new equality laws.

see. www.queeryouth.org.uk and www.uk.gay.com/news (today 7th) and the newsboards.


Queen of Kent.


Choosing homosexuality

07.01.2004 19:15

I obviously support this campaign, but I have to say that I am a lesbian because I DO choose to be one. I do believe in promoting homosexuality as a radical alternative to heteropatriarchy.

Lesbian


AH INDEED

08.01.2004 03:35

Ah so there we go. Lesbian admits that Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice and therefor it should really be categorised as a Psychosexual depravity like paedaphilia or bestiality.


AHH


If homosexuality is inherited shouldn't it have died out by now ?

08.01.2004 07:08

"...Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice and therefor it should really be categorised as a Psychosexual depravity like paedaphilia or bestiality..."


Not quite ! Paedaphilia or bestiality do not involve two concenting adults !

Therefore I suggest incest to be a far better comparison.

Which begs the question, should we be promoting incest aswell ?

Jim Royal


It's the genes stupid.

08.01.2004 12:05



Whatever Lesbian may like to think, being gay IS genetic. Two rfecent reports in the
US have demonstrated this. It appears to be 'present' even before the actions
of hormones (previously considered responsible) get going.
It is hardwired into us.
It is also thought that TS persons are also affected by the early cellular activity
in the womb.
The nearest radical lesbian may get to her ideal is probably something similar to
the matriarchal Bonobo ape set-up (our nearest genetic ape cousins). Multi female
/multi male groups. Poss like an anarchopacifist-collective.
But this is another debate.


fascists,like the two other postings,just cant get their heads out of their arses
long enough to get an education (on just about anything really).

Queen of kent.


Evidence my arse...

08.01.2004 20:11


Is incest genetic ?

Jim Royal


explain

09.01.2004 11:11

Jim royle,
are you honestly saying that lesbianism and homosextuality is equal to incest? or are you feeling abit insecure about how you feel and are trying to make yourself sound more macho?

translator


Evidently it is not me who is feeling a bit insecure........

09.01.2004 17:45

What I'm saying is there is absolutely NO evidence to prove homosexuality is genetic (sorry to burst your bubble). Just like there is no evidence to prove incest is genetic. Therefore using the same (fuzzy) logic, if it is right and proper to promote homosexuality to rid society of it's prejudice, then shouldn't there be an equal effort to promote incest ? Anything else would surely be sexual discrimination ? However, I suggest society may be nurtured into excepting homosexuality as a 'normal' way of life but I don't see society ready to except incest as acceptable or 'normal' behaviour.

There are numerous gay scientists as well as gay philosophers who openly admit there is no research proving there is a gay gene or gay brain. From the faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way flow a number of other equally flawed assumptions. Two of these are: That society must encourage and protect individuals who think they were born gay; and that those who oppose homosexual behaviour are mentally unstable (homophobic) and are trying to force homosexuals to deny their genetic destinies.

Camille Paglia, a lesbian activist has had the courage to boldly state what most homosexuals refuse to admit: 'Homosexuality is not normal. On the contrary, it is a challenge to the norm.' "Whether homosexual behaviour is normal and genetic is a significant issue under debate in American culture today. Congress is stampeding to pass 'hate crime' and 'non-discrimination' laws providing special rights for homosexuals; school textbook writers are producing pro-homosexual materials for elementary school children; Hollywood is openly promoting homosexuality and cross-dressing; and liberal church leaders are blessing homosexual 'unions'—all under the false premise that homosexuality is a positive, normal, and genetically-based lifestyle."

Despite the obvious Morton's Fork that those who question homosexual behaviour being genetic are either mentally unstable (homophobic), or indeed even repressed homosexuals themselves,(sigh...) I wonder how much money has been wasted looking for a gay gene, when that money could have been spent elsewhere - perhaps on AIDS research ?

I'm not prejudice against homosexuals, in exactly the same way I am not prejudice against obese people. I just find it rather strange to see homosexuality being promoted 'so much' throughout our popular media on the basis it 'was' thought to be genetic. It's cool to be gay is the message kids ultimately see. Obese people are prejudice against also, and it was thought once that there was an obese gene. How would people react if obese individuals were promoted 'as much' throughout our media, or indeed our schools ? Surely we would all be sitting there scratching our heads thinking what the hell is going on.

Those who profess to know once said not so long back that homosexuality was definitely a mental illness. Then a few years later they were sure it was genetic. Now I am informed that it is perfectly 'normal'. Surely the truth is homosexuality is cultural defined behaviour, and that all sexual behaviour is learned through the values and norms of a particular society ? Just as different societies have different ratios of obese people, e.g. USA and UK ? If so we are in a position where we are deluding our future generations for fear of political correctness, or indeed the accusation that those who dare to discuss the subject objectively are closet gays for not following suit and giving way to peer pressure ?

Why do some gays insist homosexuality is genetic when there is absolutely no evidence of this ? Would it make any difference to individuals sexual behaviour if homosexuality is proved to be a lifestyle choice learned through the values and norms of a particular society ?

What exactly I have said that you find so offensive ? If you think me suggesting homosexuality is learned through the values and norms of a particular society to be offencive, and this is proved to be true, it is you who is prejudicing against homosexuals, because you appear to be saying that unless homosexuality is genetic it is wrong. Indeed, the insistance of some gays that homosexuality must be genetic suggests they to think that any other explination would make their sexual behaviour to be wrong or immoral in some way.

Please explain yourself ?



Jim Royal


what was the question again?

12.01.2004 17:30

I do not see the point of tying incest and homosextuality/lesbianism together, either you want incest leagalised or homosextuality/lesbianism illeagal?

translator


inclusive bigotry

13.01.2004 12:36

This'll be the new non-homophobic homophobia, kinda like the new non-racist racism which is applied to Muslims.

;-)


Section 28 is there for a good reason

13.01.2004 16:53

Incest offers some interesting parallels to homosexuality, including

(a) Scripture forbids them both bluntly,

(b) like homosexuality, an incestuous relationship could and often does involve two consenting adults,

(c) homosexuality involves two people who are too much alike on the basis of gender identity, while incest involves two people too much alike on the basis of familial identity.

Yet, homosexuality, as long as it’s practiced between two consenting adults in a loving, monogamous relationship, is not regatded immoral (allegedly). But the argument is deeply flawed. Incest can be practiced by two consenting adults in a loving, monogamous relationship, and it’s widely regarded as immoral.



FACT: Homosexuals constitute between two to three percent of the population.

Source:
Micheal, Laumann, Micheals, and Gagnon
University of Chicago Study
October 1994
-homosexuals constitute 2.8 per cent of the male population and 1.4 per cent of the female population

Source:
Battelle Human Affairs Research Centers
Seattle, Washington
1993
-homosexuals constitute 2.3 per cent of the population

FACT: homosexuality is not genetic

"The genetic theory of homosexuality has been generally discarded today. Despite the interest in
possible hormone mechanisms in the origin of homosexuality, no serious scientist today suggests
that a simple cause-effect relationship applies"

-Masters & Johnson
Human Sexuality: Boston 1984 p. 319
Human Sexuality: Third Edition 1988 p. 418

"With rare exceptions, homosexuality is neither genetic nor the result of some glandular disturbance.
Homosexuals are made, not 'born that way'. From my 25 years' experience as a clinical psychologist,
I firmly believe that homosexuality is a learned response to early experiences and that it can be
unlearned."

-Dr. R. Kronemeyer
New York Tribune, May 6, 1983

"...in my 20 years of psychiatry I have never across anyone with "innate homosexuality". That notion
has been a long-proclaimed gay activist political position, intended to promote the acceptance of
homosexuality as a healthy, fully equal, alternative expression of human sexuality".

-Joseph Berger, MD
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry
University of Toronto
Globe & Mail February 26, 1992

"...they indicate that sexual orientation is not under the direct governance of chromosomes and
genes, and that, whereas it is not foreordained by prenatal brain hormonalization, it is influenced
thereby, and is also strongly dependent on postnatal socialization"

-Dr. John Money, John Hopkins University
"Sin, Sickness, or Status?"
American Psychologist, April, 1987 "Abstract" p. 384

"I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is largely a matter of conditioning."

-Alfred Kinsey
Dr. Kinsey and the Institute for Sex Research
New York: Harper & Row, 1972

"We're born man, woman, and sexual beings. We learn our sexual preferences and orientations."

-William Masters & Virginia Johnson
-interview with United Press International
April 23, 1979



*** There is not a shred of credible scientific evidence to demonstrate that homosexuality is
genetic! If anyone tells you there is, have him/her produce the studies ***


"From the faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way flow a number of other equally flawed assumptions. Two of these are: That society must encourage and protect individuals who think they were born gay; and that those who oppose homosexual behaviour are mentally unstable (homophobic) and are trying to force homosexuals to deny their genetic destinies."

Jim Royal


Incest offers some interesting parallels to homosexuality,

13.01.2004 17:46


..including:

(a) Scripture forbids them both bluntly,

(b) like homosexuality, an incestuous relationship could and often does involve two consenting adults,

(c) homosexuality involves two people who are too much alike on the basis of gender identity, while incest involves two people too much alike on the basis of familial identity.

Yet, homosexuality, as long as it’s practiced between two consenting adults in a loving, monogamous relationship, is not regarded immoral (allegedly). But the argument is deeply flawed. Incest can be practiced by two consenting adults in a loving, monogamous relationship, and it is widely regarded as completely immoral.

Besides, if incest is proved to be genetic should we legalise it, promote it in our schools, delude our future generations into thinking incest is an alternative sexual orientation (pressuming there is more than one) ? Of course not, you'd have to be mad !

Despite what you may assume from the disperportinate number of homosexuals that appear in our popular media:

FACT: Homosexuals constitute between two to three percent of the population.

Source:
Micheal, Laumann, Micheals, and Gagnon
University of Chicago Study
October 1994
-homosexuals constitute 2.8 per cent of the male population and 1.4 per cent of the female population

Source:
Battelle Human Affairs Research Centers
Seattle, Washington
1993
-homosexuals constitute 2.3 per cent of the population

FACT: homosexuality is not genetic

"The genetic theory of homosexuality has been generally discarded today. Despite the interest in
possible hormone mechanisms in the origin of homosexuality, no serious scientist today suggests
that a simple cause-effect relationship applies"

-Masters & Johnson
Human Sexuality: Boston 1984 p. 319
Human Sexuality: Third Edition 1988 p. 418

"With rare exceptions, homosexuality is neither genetic nor the result of some glandular disturbance.
Homosexuals are made, not 'born that way'. From my 25 years' experience as a clinical psychologist,
I firmly believe that homosexuality is a learned response to early experiences and that it can be
unlearned."

-Dr. R. Kronemeyer
New York Tribune, May 6, 1983

"...in my 20 years of psychiatry I have never across anyone with "innate homosexuality". That notion
has been a long-proclaimed gay activist political position, intended to promote the acceptance of
homosexuality as a healthy, fully equal, alternative expression of human sexuality".

-Joseph Berger, MD
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry
University of Toronto
Globe & Mail February 26, 1992

"...they indicate that sexual orientation is not under the direct governance of chromosomes and
genes, and that, whereas it is not foreordained by prenatal brain hormonalization, it is influenced
thereby, and is also strongly dependent on postnatal socialization"

-Dr. John Money, John Hopkins University
"Sin, Sickness, or Status?"
American Psychologist, April, 1987 "Abstract" p. 384

"I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is largely a matter of conditioning."

-Alfred Kinsey
Dr. Kinsey and the Institute for Sex Research
New York: Harper & Row, 1972

"We're born man, woman, and sexual beings. We learn our sexual preferences and orientations."

-William Masters & Virginia Johnson
-interview with United Press International
April 23, 1979

There is not a shred of credible scientific evidence to demonstrate that homosexuality is genetic ! If anyone tells you there is, have him/her produce the studies.

"From the faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way flow a number of other equally flawed assumptions." *Three* of these are:

(1) That those who oppose homosexual behaviour are mentally unstable (homophobic) and are trying to force homosexuals to deny their genetic destinies.

(2) That society must encourage and protect individuals who think they were born gay.

(3) That we should: "Tell Michael Howard to Cut Kent's Section 28 Red Tape"........


Section 28 is there for a good reason !

Jim Royal


Sorry about that

13.01.2004 18:29

I thought I lost my first response as I sent it, so sent it again just in case.

Whilst I am here I will pose a question for all the gays reading this.

If you found out your gay lover was your long lost sibling would it change anything ?

Think carefully before you answer, if indeed you dare.

Jim Royal


wot about the navy?

14.01.2004 10:37

I would have to disagree with your figre of %2.8 and %1.6 that are gay or lesbian. My evidence? personal experience, i know alot of people that either are gay/lesbian or have confessed to having some gay/lesbian experiences. You must also take into acount that it has only been leagal for a few decades and only been socially acceptable in the last decade. I would like to see you go around a gay bar waving your bible at them and saying "men shalt not lie with other men" (especially when that is your main justification for disaproving of homosextuality). Secondly, just because incest and homosextuality are both banned by the bible and the law does not make both of them as bad as each other. Murder and peeing in the street are both banned by the law, incest and adultery are both banned by the bible. Who decided all the laws in the bible and statutes? answer: middle class straight white men aka politicans and the clergy. At least homosextuality helps prevent facism.

translator


The golden rivet ???

14.01.2004 13:46

First of all they were not my figures, that was proper scientific research I was quoting, against your personal assumtion it seems.

Secondly I think the Bible is the devils paradox, and have spoken out against all religion in other coments in IMC.

Thirdly I don't think homosexuality should be illegal just because homosexuality is not genetic, though I don't think it should by promoted in schools either. We learn our sexual preferences and orientations. Hence section 28 is there for a good reason !


Jim Royal


spot the difference

18.01.2004 10:21

What would you (jim royle) do if you found out your female lover was actually your long lost sister?
and how is this any different from a homosextual finding out that his lover is a long lost brother?

translator


No, I don't do siblings.

19.01.2004 10:12

(I'm suprised you even asked...)


Mind you, if I was brought up in a culture that 'promoted' incest as a normal way of life I might !


You wrote: "how is this any different from a homosexual finding out that his lover is a long lost brother?"

A) If a homosexual said that it would not make any difference to them, it would suggest they don't make any moral distinction between incest and homosexuality.

B) If it would make a difference, it would suggest that sexuality is largely a matter of conditioning.

Either answer would support my assertions !


I appologise if this has offended anyone, it is not meant to. I honestly don't have a problem with homosexuals, (providing they realise it is a challenge to the norm) but I do have a problem with homosexuality being promoted to impressionable young minds, especially in schools, and even more so when the justification is based on the faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way, rather than on the belief we *learn* our sexual preferences and orientations.

Jim Royal


reply to Jim Royal

19.01.2004 11:46

Don't worry, Jim, homosexuality is not "being promoted to impressionable young minds" and never has been as far as I'm aware. That assertion was purely an invention of irresponsible tabloids at the time Section 28 was introduced.


John Jenkins


But homosexuality is already promoted in youth culture via the music industry...

20.01.2004 18:42

JJ - I think there are some who would strongly disagree with your first point. There is far more gay reference in youth culture now than there was a decade ago. Nevertheless I take it from your comment you can see my argument, and therefore agree that homosexuality should not be promoted to youngsters ?

If Section 28 is abolished, what is there to stop, say a gay theatre group, aproaching a local authority to request a tour of the local schools ?

Jim Royal


reply to Jim Royal

21.01.2004 10:56

Jim,

"homosexuality is already promoted in youth culture via the music industry..."

Not sure what you mean by this - can you elaborate?

"Nevertheless I take it from your comment you can see my argument, and therefore agree that homosexuality should not be promoted to youngsters ?"

If you mean that youngsters should not be told that homosexuality is "better" than heterosexuality, then yes, I'd agree. But I don't think this was ever a problem.

"If Section 28 is abolished, what is there to stop, say a gay theatre group, aproaching a local authority to request a tour of the local schools ? "

But Section 28 has already been abolished! There's nothing to stop a gay theatre group approaching a local authority, but it's then up to individual schools to decide whether they want it or not. If they decide it's suitable for their pupils, I can see no problem.




John Jenkins


Do it like they do on the MTV channel...

21.01.2004 17:07

Promoting homosexuality through music (Who are the target audience ?)

John Jenkins wrote:> Don't worry, Jim, homosexuality is not "being promoted to impressionable young minds" and never has been as far as I'm aware.If you mean that youngsters should not be told that homosexuality is "better" than heterosexuality, then yes, I'd agree. But I don't think this was ever a problem.<

I don't think it is a simple question of 'better or worse' John.

I am referring to the fact that homosexuality is being avidly promoted of a faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way (see Queen of Kent above) rather than "promoting homosexuality as a radical alternative to heteropatriarchy" (See Lesbian above).

As for Section 28 already being abolished, can you elaborate ? I was under the impression "Tell Michael Howard to Cut Kent's Section 28 Red Tape" was a call abolish Section 28 (in Kent at least) ?

Jim Royal


My last reply seems to have been edited... Here is is again in full !

21.01.2004 17:32

Do it like they do on the MTV channel...

Promoting homosexuality through music (Who are the target audience ?)

John Jenkins wrote: "Don't worry, Jim, homosexuality is not "being promoted to impressionable young minds" and never has been as far as I'm aware."

Perhaps you missed Madonna slipping Britney Spears the tongue ?

"The audience of MTV's twentieth annual Video Music Awards on August 28th knew they were in for something a little bit different for this year's opening act, but few were prepared for what they saw. Britney and Christina opened the VMA show dressed like (Porn) brides singing Madonna's classic hit "Like a Virgin," which then segued into Madonna's new song "Hollywood" as Madonna stepped out of the wedding cake wearing a modified tuxedo. What ensued was a drag show of sorts in which Madonna was the "groom" and Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were the virginal brides, culminating in a french-kiss between Madonna and Britney, and then between Madonna and Christina."

"Christina Aguilera, whose video for her hit song "Beautiful" celebrated love between gay men."

"Up until now, Britney has never taken a stand on gay issues one way or the other. But when a reporter on Entertainment Tonight asked Britney after the show "What does it feel like to be kissed by Madonna?" Spears responded that "this is something I've dreamt about since I was a little girl. I cannot believe this just like freakin' happened. I am on a major high right now. I feel very cool." This is heady stuff coming from a young woman who only a few years ago was the reigning queen of teen innocence."

"Of course, women kissing each other is not a rarity in pop music these days. This performance, in fact, is nothing compared to what you'll see from popular Russian pop teen duo T.A.T.U. in any given concert or video. Although music fans have been divided over T.A.T.U., with some feeling the girls' performance and relationship is genuine and others that it's just an exploitive marketing ploy, the girls have developed a large following in the last year despite, or perhaps because of, their unabashed embracing of lesbian relationships."

"Like T.A.T.U., however, the Madonna-Britney-Christina performance begs the question: is this kiss progress for lesbian visibility, or just a publicity stunt? Or both?"

"What is a powerful argument, however, is that the sight of such three well-known women with such large fan bases embracing lesbian sexuality cannot help but normalize it, at least a little, just as Madonna did with gay male sexuality many years ago through her controversial video "Truth or Dare." The fact that photos of Madonna and Britney kissing has been all over the news for several days will also help to desensitize Americans to the image of two women kissing. It probably won't change anyone's minds overnight, but it does (briefly) raise lesbian sexuality to a new level of visibility in a way that may ultimately benefit those of us for whom lesbian sexuality is not just a performance."

"Of course, if it had actually been lesbian or bisexual women kissing on national television, it would have been even more powerful--but then, you'd be hard pressed to find any out lesbian pop stars with the collective clout of Madonna, Britney and Christina, either."

"Some also believe this performance was an endorsement of gay marriage, and while that may be true, that message was likely lost on the audience in the shadow of the kiss and the general spectacle of the awards show itself."

"Fortunately, the performance succeeded at that, even as it also highlighted how far we have to go. The amount of attention the kiss received in the media clearly indicates how much further we have to go before a same-sex kiss is no big deal."

"We are clearly not there yet. But next time two women kiss on stage, or in the street, perhaps it won't be quite so shocking."

 http://www.afterellen.com/TV/vmakiss.html


T.A.T.U.'s "All The Things She Said" running through my head, running through my head, running through my head, running through my head.................

If you have not seen it, here is the rundown of the video: two cute girls (yes, they're teens and yes they're wearing school girl skirts...

 http://www.afterellen.com/TV/tatu.html


Q: Who are the target audience ?

A: Impressionable young minds !



John Jenkins also wrote: "If you mean that youngsters should not be told that homosexuality is "better" than heterosexuality, then yes, I'd agree. But I don't think this was ever a problem."

I don't think it is a question of 'better or worse' John.

I am referring to the fact that homosexuality is being promoted of a faulty premise that homosexuals are born that way (see Queen of Kent above) rather than "promoting homosexuality as a radical alternative to heteropatriarchy" (See Lesbian above).

As for Section 28 already being abolished, can you elaborate ? I was under the impression "Tell Michael Howard to Cut Kent's Section 28 Red Tape" was a call abolish Section 28 (in Kent at least) ?

Jim Royal


reply to Jim

21.01.2004 18:09

"Perhaps you missed Madonna slipping Britney Spears the tongue ?"

I assumed that was just a publicity stunt for both of them - promotion of a different sort! As for targetting impressionable young minds, do you really think that it's going to encourage young girls to become lesbians? That's not the way things work!

"As for Section 28 already being abolished, can you elaborate ?"

Yep, it was finally repealed in England and Wales in November last year.

And "Tell Michael Howard to Cut Kent's Section 28 Red Tape" is a call to stop Kent introducing its own local form of Section 28 following the repeal of the original one.

As to whether homosexuals are "born" or "made" that way, no one seems to know for sure, and anyway it's immaterial. Either way, sexual orientation appears to be fixed at an early age and it's not something than anyone can be "promoted" into acquiring.




John J


Denial ?

22.01.2004 05:47

JJ wrote: "sexual orientation appears to be fixed at an early age" I suggest some evidence to back this up would help your case...

You curiously underestimate the influence of culture, and appear to be in complete denial regarding a persons ability to choose.

There is not a shred of evidence to support homosexuality being genetic, despite all the hype. Regardless of of your implication that scientist are clueless of what influences a persons sexuality, all the evidence points to a persons individual sexuality depending on what that person may have been taught, and what they have learned from society and the culture at large. Consequently a male or female growing up in another culture would grow up with sexual values, beliefs, and behaviours that may be very different from our own. Youngsters have different sexual attitudes and behaviours based on their culture, i.e. what their family has taught them, as well as the influence of peer behaviour, local subcultures, popular media, religion, law, policy etc. All of which influences the way the 'MTV generation' express themselves sexually.

Why are some gays so frightened (ashamed?) to admit that an individuals sexuality is a matter of personal choice - that is largely influenced by culture and personal experience. Why does there need to be a reason for their behaviour that is regarded beyond their control ?

Anyway, thanks for the chance to put my views across, and thanks for educating me about S 28 already being abolished, I somehow missed that on the news...? Ah well, I only hope gay activist will consider the views of heterosexual parents, and give schools a wide birth. I suggest it is the denial that sexuality is influenced by culture that worries a lot of people. Having said that, I doubt the parents views would be expressed never mind heard. As any criticism will no doubt be paradoxically labelled as homophobia. From my personal perspective it is political correctness gone mad.

No malice intended !

Jim Royal


being gay is not usually a matter of choice!

22.01.2004 11:13

Jim, I'm not presenting a "case" (that sexual orientation appears to be fixed at an early age) - I'm just passing on what seems to be the general view, backed up by my own and many others' personal experiences of growing up gay. (I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s when there were absolutely no positive depictions of homosexuality.)

Regarding a person's ability to choose: unless you're bisexual, you cannot "choose" which sex you are attracted to! Could you choose to "turn gay" if you wanted to?

"I only hope gay activist will consider the views of heterosexual parents, and give schools a wide birth."

Why pander to the mistaken views of some that children can be "turned gay" by watching a gay play or whatever? It's ridiculous.

John

John J


as I said...

24.01.2004 01:36


I suggest it is the denial that sexuality is influenced by culture that worries a lot of people.

Jim Royal


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